Heading into winTier ..... the one we hoped it would be over before...

[dancemom]

New thread Tierers ...

Let’s not forget masks do not stop it spreading it at school.
If it’s in your school or community, you know and should be able to take suitable local level actions. Why do we still have children in masks across the whole of Scotland (not England or Wales)? If a child has tested negative that day and is not poorly/with symptoms at school, life should go on, the same way it did for the thousands of COP delegates🤷‍♀️

Exactly.

As a parent, i'd be content to support the extreme mitigations that remain in schools, and the unrecognisable school life our kids are experiencing (for almost 2 years now) if the mitigations actually worked! They dont though. Comparison with English schools/case numbers, unarguably, illustrates this.

The mitigations in scottish schools WILL end, and soon (early next year). For our kids though, the legacy of that 2 years will remain. Its not necessarily my opinion, however I know several (very reasonable) parents who view the teaching profession very differently now. They feel the teaching unions have behaved appallingly; and that too is a legacy that will remain.

[quote Mistressiggi]@OnceUponAWhine if you really believe all my secondary students are routinely testing you live in a parallel universe.
Also doesn't explain why I've had so many students off with Covid (clearly masks don't stop all transmission, all I can hope is that they help!)[/quote]
I’ll explain why you’ve had so many students off- you’ve got a virus spreading in school and your community 🤷‍♀️

Of course they’re not all routinely testing. As I’m sure many mask-free COP delegates didn’t either, it wasn’t to be shown at the door.

You may know some parents who view the teaching profession very differently. I know many parents who have been more supportive and very vocal in that than ever before.

And many who just realised that like most of society we had no control over decisions, our opinions and views over what options were available were never sought, that we tried our best to work with what could and were feeling just the same as everyone else.

There is not one classroom teacher in the Covid Recovery Panel for example.

There is not one classroom teacher in the Covid Recovery Panel for example.

Sadly unsurprising; the scottish government has tended not to consult the industries who've been most affected by restrictions. That said, teachers have been able to exert more clout than many (via their union).

I'd've liked to see the kids themselves consulted a bit more, and have their views considered - after all, scotgov was happy to credit kids with enough savvy to decide themselves if they wanted the vaccine.

Have we? Not in my experience. Spent two years wondering what my subs are for.

Teachers have said the same about pupil voice too. They are very savvy. Have strong views and will argue passionately about them. There are also large numbers who still want masks and other mitigations too. I'm not the only teacher on Scotsnet who has this experience.

• 3,360 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 40,412 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 8.8% of these were positive
• 13 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 57 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 774 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,332,835 people have received their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccination and 3,931,709 have received their second dose

@mibbelucieachwell

On the basis of today's numbers I predict 3,300 new cases reported tomorrow.

Any other guesses?

Erm... You don't fancy going halves on a lottery ticket do you mibbe?! That's not bad crystal-balling!

@OnceUponAWhine I was replying to this post from you.
If it’s in your school or community, you know and should be able to take suitable local level actions. Why do we still have children in masks across the whole of Scotland (not England or Wales)? If a child has tested negative that day and is not poorly/with symptoms at school, life should go on, the same way it did for the thousands of COP delegates
Which seemed to imply to me that you thought we don't need masks in schools because children know themselves to be negative as have used an LFD.
I don't know every school clearly, but everyone I know has covid "in it".

Everywhere has Covid and it’s pointless to try to stop it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well, whilst we’re on the topic of young people- I see there’s been an update (on U.K. gov site) to the guidance for vaccination after confirmed covid case in 12-17yo as a precaution against myocarditis. Advised to be 3 months apart. I can only speak for my local area where huge number of cases before October holiday, followed by vaccines after as per the Scottish government rollout.

Seriously, this just gets worse for young people.

@OnceUponAWhine

Well, whilst we’re on the topic of young people- I see there’s been an update (on U.K. gov site) to the guidance for vaccination after confirmed covid case in 12-17yo as a precaution against myocarditis. Advised to be 3 months apart. I can only speak for my local area where huge number of cases before October holiday, followed by vaccines after as per the Scottish government rollout.

Seriously, this just gets worse for young people.

Have you got a link? I would like to read that.

That’s where I think the teachers unions have fallen down. They’ve pushed for measures and vaccines for young people and children without thinking of potential consequences. As has Devi.

The EIS I mean really. This is NOT my experience of teachers I know so I’m NOT teacher bashing. I’m EIS bashing.

I’ve been wrestling with whether to get DS jabbed. Doesn’t get any easier.

Fallen down in the eyes of random parents like me; maybe not in the eyes of their members 🤷🏻‍♀️

I thought the risks from covid were higher than the risk from the vaccine? So better to get the vaccine?

@StarryEyeSurprise

I thought the risks from covid were higher than the risk from the vaccine? So better to get the vaccine?

Depends on the age range and numbers of dose. For adolescents 2 doses has a higher risk of myocarditis from the vaccine then risk of serious illness/death from covid. For 1 dose its a very slim in the numbers they are pretty much the same as risk of serious illness/death from covid is so extremely low in their age group which is the main point of the vaccine to prevent serious illness

It’s a dilemma @StarryEyeSurprise. I’m studying the data and thinking

The good news is that some large studies from Israel found that it's still rare and the cases that do occur are mostly mild.
But I completely understand the concern if you have a younger teenage boy (the risk seems to be greater for boys) of if the benefit of vaccination is worth it.

What does long covid come under? I think 1,000 children a week are hospitalised in the UK due to covid? It was mentioned in a newspaper article.
My thoughts are that they advised against pregnant women getting the vaccine and now have done a 180.
Personally, I would. Of course, each to their own. The vaccine take up had been higher here hasn't it? Which is good.

Multiple sources, as it’s from a press release. Here you go @tigger1001

www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-health-agency-extends-gap-between-infection-shots-children-2021-11-17/

@StarryEyeSurprise

What does long covid come under? I think 1,000 children a week are hospitalised in the UK due to covid? It was mentioned in a newspaper article. My thoughts are that they advised against pregnant women getting the vaccine and now have done a 180. Personally, I would. Of course, each to their own. The vaccine take up had been higher here hasn't it? Which is good.

I have no idea where you have been reading that one but no it's not 1000 children per week hospitalised because of covid! By end of July this year there had been a total of just over 5000 hospitalisations out of 4 million infections in children. Long covid in children is also lower than first anticipated the last article I saw was less then 2% risk after 12 weeks for teenagers.

The pregnancy advice is common with any new drug or vaccination. The UK has some of the strictest trial regulations in the world. If its not tested on pregnant women (which isn't allowed) then it cannot be recommended. It showed no risk in animal trials hence the US did regulate its use. The UK examined the real life data from the US of over 90,000 to be completely sure before changing the very precautionary approach. Unfortunately media articles didn't bother to explain the background to this so women latched onto well they said no but then they said yes aspect! In fact it's the same in the UK for anything due to the very strict rules.

@StarryEyeSurprise

I thought the risks from covid were higher than the risk from the vaccine? So better to get the vaccine?

…and if the vaccine passports come into force for children 12-17 too? For example, it extends to their right to access mask free education with it becoming dependent on vaccine status? (Please don’t say they wouldn’t do that, I think we’re way past that point.)

So many considerations- their health is the main priority, of course.

[quote OnceUponAWhine]Multiple sources, as it’s from a press release. Here you go @tigger1001

www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/uk-health-agency-extends-gap-between-infection-shots-children-2021-11-17/[/quote]
Thank you. I did try to find it but couldn't see it.

It's a worry as my eldest had covid and now the vaccine. And would be about 6 weeks after. He got his appointment through on day 27 but we cancelled it. Then we struggled to get another appointment. I wasn't keen for him to be vaccinated, but he was keen to get it done. Wish we had waited a bit longer now

www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/11/how-the-uk-sleepwalked-into-another-covid-disaster

It was in this New Statesman article @ Scottishskifun

@StarryEyeSurprise I’m finding it much more difficult to decide about DS than for myself! He’s just so important to me

@StarryEyeSurprise

www.newstatesman.com/comment/2021/11/how-the-uk-sleepwalked-into-another-covid-disaster

It was in this New Statesman article @ Scottishskifun

That's an opinion piece with no source referenced that I can see to that number at all.

The 5000+ for England in July (total pandemic time) came from studies but was also considered to be a over estimate as its all recorded cases and a foi to Scottish health in the summer after Hamzars scare mongering found 52% of child admissions were as a result of covid not with covid.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/science/covid-children-hospital-death-rates-b1880583.html%3famp