Guilt Free Railing 13

[WouldBeGood]

Unlucky for some.. maybe lucky for us?

I think they do need some training but it's probably not a massive amount of training.

My guess is a lot will be on things to watch for (underage, drugs, and aggressive behaviour) and how to safely break up fights and man handle people back out the door.

Dealing with people's information other than a glance at an ID card shouldn't be part of it. They'll be more interested in how to spot fake ID than the information on it.

Maybe im old and cynical but i think most bouncers are wannabe thugs. I heard they are more likely to be dealing the drugs than looking out for them . Either that or they are young boys in a high viz jacket earning a bit of spare money with minimum training. Before covid ds2 went to a nightclub in Glasgow where all the youngsters go, very popular. He said even though he had his driving licence as ID, the bouncer asked for his bankcard to confirm the name on the ID, then before letting ds in he asked his pin number. Seriously dodgy fucker. I cant remember if ds told him so he could get in, but when he told me the next day i wanted to complain to the manager but ds said no dont, incase he sees him again...
I know there will be plenty ok bouncers but these guys are paid peanuts and its only certain folk that it would appeal to.

Totally agree an address should never be on id needed for nightclubs.
All it takes is one dodgy bouncer taking a picture of it on his phone and he knows where certain people live. Very bad IMO

Yes, the address thing only occurred to me last night. Obviously a bit risky from a safety viewpoint, but also it's kind of advertising that this person is not at their address because they're out on the lash... So may be worth a scout by the back garden. Clearly no guarantee no one's at home, and of course driving licenses also have addresses if someone is so inclined to scrape addresses from things shown as ID. But definitely not as prominently, and not requiring scanning/ photographing as part of the process (to send onto your mate in the white van) as the vaccine cert.

Hope your DS is feeling a bit better today should! Poor mite.

@WouldBeGood

Quite *@shouldistop*. I think all the news yesterday made me think of this this morning. It’s far too much information to be required by the state for an individual to be allowed to enter an entertainment venue, and I don’t think potential consequences have been thought through.

Scottish government in 'consequences not properly thought through' shocker! This is what happens when you couple an administration that surrounds itself with sycophantic noddy dogs with the complete absence of any meaningful opposition or a second chamber. I agree though that this presents a security risk and all it needs is a few unscrupulous individuals for this to end very badly indeed. If the SNP's long history of bad/repealed/legally challenged 'law' is any indication though I don't expect this to last long, if it ever properly comes into force at all.

I was thinking that too that Scottish Parliament could do with a second chamber. But I think it would be a waste of money and the HoL must have some spare capacity to review Scottish laws, as we seem to have far too much power in the hands of SNP.

SG have proved time and again that women's safety is bottom of their agenda so this is no surprise.

Those not that fussed about this - that's me now barred from certain venues through no fault of my own, gp can't/won't help, response from my SNP MSP was unsympathetic and dismissive.

Granted no plans to visit a nightclub any time soon but firstly it's the principle and secondly I don't trust them not to extend the scope of the scheme.

What a shame @MaxNormal
A close family member of mine isn't vaccinated, he has huge health anxiety and is convinced it would kill him. I don't think he can even take his kids to the panto without it

@shouldistop that's really sad for him and his family

The email I got back from said MSP extolled the virtue of the scheme and proudly told me that less than 0.1% of people are unable to get vaccinated. Which basically told me that they will decree to clinicians who is exempt rather than clinicians using their own judgement.

Meanwhile I've spent the last six months watching various members of my support group relapse after innoculation.

I'm already permanently disabled due to iatrogenic injury, so I have very strong feelings about informed consent.

Yep, vaccine passports are coercing people to consent. It's not right. I believe in vaccinations, they're amazing and for most people are very safe but it's not right to coerce people.

proudly told me that less than 0.1% of people are unable to get vaccinated

Obviously thinks crippling anxiety doesn't exist then.

And exactly as you say, politicians shouldn't be telling doctors who is exempt or not.

Obviously thinks crippling anxiety doesn't exist then

They don't care. They all just follow the party line and that's it. If as a contituent you're on the sharp end of that, tough luck basically.

I suppose it was the same with sickness benefit assessments, wasn't it? Some medically unqualified advisor could overrule people's gps and consultants.

I agree. That is awful max and should. Yes, vaccines are fab, but no one should be disadvantaged socially for not having one. Apparently the legal challenge to the scheme has failed, as the judge considers it to be proportionate. It is frustrating, that the current scheme does claim to be quite limited ("just nightclubs and sports matches"... though I think theoretically it could cover other things above the numbers set, like theatre/ gigs/ large conferences and so on as you say) . But I also don't trust that it won't be extended to smaller events - cinemas/ hospitality/ schools... And that will be much harder to argue in principle once the precedent has been set.

ResilienceWanker that's what is worrying me. I've been following events in France and Italy, for instance, with great disquiet. Although even they have a testing option!

People saying it's a way back to normal but the whole thing feels very far from normal to me. It's completely altering our relationship with the State and the concept of informed medical consent.

Yes in France you need it to eat indoors in a restaurant! I think maybe in Ireland too?

The bar will have been set very high for medical exemption so list of conditions will be tiny.
Bet it's something like clinician has to declare risk of dying from vaccine higher than risk dying from covid.

Bet it's something like clinician has to declare risk of dying from vaccine higher than risk dying from covid.

I thought that was actually the case for teenagers? Maybe I'm wrong.

I wholeheartedly agree @MaxNormal. And I feel for you and others in your position.

I’m not eager to go anywhere where this is required although I’m double jagged. It’s all just so wrong, and no end in sight.

Does the legislation even provide for exemptions at all?

@shouldistop think that was chance of developing myocarditis in teenagers, not sure it was actually death but I could be wrong

@WouldBeGood supposedly in theory but I don't think in practice. You have to laugh.

Long time lurking but never posted but I'm sad with the judges verdict. I'm in favour of the vaccine and believe it reduces the chance of getting severely ill. However there's no evidence they prevent transmission and there are several bmj articles backing this up. People can also have legitimate reasons that aren't medical to refuse being vaccinated - pregnancy, anxiety or general distrust for example. I don't understand how mandating vaccines will ease their concerns.

I thought the NTIA had very valid arguments. There's been no clear guidance, impact risk assessments etc yet issued to companies on how they're to enforce these checks. They've already compromised with football matches to do stop checks which shows the entire idea is now pointless. I no longer believe this party listens to anyone or think through these forced policies. Same with the fire alarm farce - delayed a year because of poor publicity and now we're in a year later with poor publicity again.

However there's no evidence they prevent transmission and there are several bmj articles backing this up

It's presented as reducing spread but no-one really believes that!
It's clearly targeting very specific groups to increase their vaccine uptake
Boris threatened it but was never actually going to introduce it. Wouldn't fit with his libertarian values.
Once the job is done they'll drop the passport domestically.
Although I think will be required to enter other countries for some time

@WouldBeGood

Does the legislation even provide for exemptions at all?

I don't even think they've published the legislation, have they? Or they hadn't yesterday when the legal stuff was going on. It's fine... They have a good 17 or so hours before they come into force. No one needs more time than that to look at and understand them

@Notamultitasker

Long time lurking but never posted but I'm sad with the judges verdict. I'm in favour of the vaccine and believe it reduces the chance of getting severely ill. However there's no evidence they prevent transmission and there are several bmj articles backing this up. People can also have legitimate reasons that aren't medical to refuse being vaccinated - pregnancy, anxiety or general distrust for example. I don't understand how mandating vaccines will ease their concerns.

I thought the NTIA had very valid arguments. There's been no clear guidance, impact risk assessments etc yet issued to companies on how they're to enforce these checks. They've already compromised with football matches to do stop checks which shows the entire idea is now pointless. I no longer believe this party listens to anyone or think through these forced policies. Same with the fire alarm farce - delayed a year because of poor publicity and now we're in a year later with poor publicity again.

Yes, all of this. It just seems like they have stopped caring if things are actually useful or beneficial, and are just shoving stuff through because they can... Including the fire alarm thing. Angry that that hasn't gone away, and more angry that they are making the same mistakes re publicising/ assisting householders to meet it. Or even explaining to us why it's needed in the first place... (Welcome, by the way! Please join us in the railing whenever you feel the need... )

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