Dancing with tiers in my eyes, Weeping for the memory of a life gone by

[dancemom]

New thread, a very appropriate title I feel ...

Interesting quotes from Larry Flanagan (EIS) in this article.

Focus is on children having access to the vaccine for themselves and their parents' peace of mind rather than for teachers / wider community. I can understand this pov but in that case surely it is up to health professionals to reassure and reinforce the JCVI's considered judgement rather than to overrule and / or undermine it.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58447803

I do understand LF's unspoken point that schools and teachers are under immense pressure to be seen to be doing ever more but at some point there is more reassurance from having anxieties de-escalated. Fingers crossed here that the post school return spike in cases will start to abate and calm nerves soon.

• 6,368 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 48,033 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 14.2% of these were positive
• 0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends)
• 61 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 719 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,121,962 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 3,726,769 have received their second dose

We're going to be back to 1000+ people in hospital shortly aren't we? 😕

Looks like it. They really need to change the rules re pupils coming in immediately if pcr is negative. We've had a few cases where parents have children who are close contacts amd/ or displaying symptoms. They've kept them off school even though they could come in as they have a negative pcr and a few days later they've shown positive. The guidance doesn't refer to timelines- waiting 3 to 5 days. The incubation period is actually up to 14 days so it's hardly surprising so many are becoming ill. I currently have nearly half of my class off.

It's crazy isn't it. My brother only got a positive PCR 7 days after being a close contact. The PCR on day 6 was negative.

I think we just need to stop reporting these numbers. Meaningless if they’re not in hospital fir Covid.

They really need to change the rules re pupils coming in immediately if pcr is negative.

This is how we caught it. Small community so everyone knows everyone- the wee boy who sits beside mine in class came in even though both parents were positive. A week later, the teacher is off, and another third of the class are positive.

It makes no sense. I'd like to know on what evidence that change to the rules was made.

And that's just the ones actually asked to take a test. My understanding is that you can sit all day with your bf at school and that isn't going to require you to get a PCR at all now - basically sleep overs and other extended contact. And yet we leave our details for 45 minutes having a coffee in Costa.

Yep. DD's best friend is coming to school tomorrow even though her parents have Coronavirus. So that should be fun for all of us.

It's very bizarre. I can only assume that they are not really trying to suppress the virus. Letting it spread in a semi controlled way?

@OhWhatsTheDifference

We're going to be back to 1000+ people in hospital shortly aren't we? 😕

I just heard Hairmyers in EK have been told to clear wards in preparation for covid coming back in large numbers this winter. There's a new strain apparently. I'm sticking my head in the sand, have had enough.

I do think it's a strange strategy - I went to a heaving take away place and did the track and trace, but if parents have covid the kids can go to school - do you think many people are this mad? When DD had it we assumed we all did and we'd have stayed home regardless.

@forfucksakenett

It's very bizarre. I can only assume that they are not really trying to suppress the virus. Letting it spread in a semi controlled way?

I think you are probably on to something there @forfucksakenett

We have always tested on day 4 of being a contact as we knew for the majority time between exposure and testing positive was 3-5 days and generally you don't get alerted for a few days anyway.

There isn't many who go past 6 days to the 14 days and for some it's hard to tell if it's from another person sharing the home which is positive especially with delta which data is showing can reach spread levels within 24 hours of exposure before symptoms start.

It's a highly changeable virus there are going to be new variants one paper I saw was that 2 million different genome sequences had been detected to date! Obviously there is a miniscule amount which become a "variant of concern" but that's why it's not really possible to control its not static enough.

As long as vaccines hold up against serious illness which they seem to be then we all need to adapt.

Oh and vaccination data is showing at doing well at reducing long covid risk too!

I think the change of rules has been because the contact self isolation requirement was unworkable (in society, not just in schools). So few close contacts went on to get covid, but it caused so much trouble for jobs/ services/ healthcare/ distribution, they just stopped it. I think that was the only reasonable solution, really... maybe household contacts could have been treated differently, but they may have data to show that in practice, rather than anecdote, the amount of household transmission wasn't actually too bad. Who knows?!

It is odd, because in England there isn't even the requirement for (double jagged or children) close contacts to get a test at all, so they don't even have the day-or-so mandated isolation, and they aren't having the large numbers - though I know school hasn't started there yet, mostly. So it doesn't seem like "testing too early and then going on to test positive" is automatically a huge issue in childcare/ jobs/ shops etc. But something different does seem to be happening in Scotland (and I don't think it's just schools).

I was confused by treatment of schools too. I think in principle, pupils sitting next to each other would class as close contacts (within 1m for over 15 min) - just as Costa close contacts would - but this will only work if the infected child is able to identify them and provide contact details for them to T and P. The school can't provide that info (unlike Costa). So if the child or parents don't have it, contacts won't be informed officially. It is a bit of a mish mash. In practice, I think the way parents know to keep a special look out for symptoms is through the letters sent by the school, and testing, testing, testing... I don't think you can blame parents not keeping negative children off school though, even if the parents are positive. That is the guidance, so they aren't doing anything wrong, even though you may prefer them to be a bit more cautious.

A few weeks ago ONS were showing England 's rates as double ours ( and that's before their school's are back). I couldn't understand why but from what you've said, it's hardly surprising.

Does the guidance really say children can attend school if their parents have covid?! Wow.

school rate

*schools even! Argh

If the children test negative and don't have symptoms then yes @starryeyesuprise

I mean how the child gets to school without parents breaking isolation I don't know!
I definitely wouldn't send DS if we were positive again and he wasn't but some parents clearly do!

Yes @StarryEyeSurprise
Children now seem to be treated the same as double vaxed adults. If PCR is negative they don't have to isolate 🤷🏼‍♀️

@ResilienceWanker will let you into a little secret...... Test and trace haven't been following up check in potential at places for a very long time now! It's basically are arbitrary thing which is never used and completely pointless! They don't have enough staff or the capability to do test and trace properly so it becomes pretty pointless! They now only follow up high risk settings such as care home contacts etc.

Probably why I either don't bother anymore and if I do then I just let it run and run and run! I know it's not ever going to be used!

[quote Scottishskifun]@ResilienceWanker will let you into a little secret...... Test and trace haven't been following up check in potential at places for a very long time now! It's basically are arbitrary thing which is never used and completely pointless! They don't have enough staff or the capability to do test and trace properly so it becomes pretty pointless! They now only follow up high risk settings such as care home contacts etc.

Probably why I either don't bother anymore and if I do then I just let it run and run and run! I know it's not ever going to be used![/quote]
The worst kept secret😀 it’s why I pretend to pop my details on for the coffee chains and never bother with real details to those who make you hand write your personal data just to sit outside.
We’re literally the only nation being told to test, test, test by not funny Scottish personalities as though it is all a comedy show ffs and still with ridiculous rules in place. Stop testing, please.

Yes, I'd assumed that, ski! When I tested positive back at the beginning of July I'd been to loads of places in the couple of days before. I told t and p all of them, and their phone numbers and everything, and I didn't hear from any of them saying "someone" had tested positive when I was there, so to be aware. I'd given all my proper details and everything too, generally online, so it would only take someone clicking a button to send an email out to everyone checked in! So I assumed that t and p didn't contact them because they weren't high risk.

Re parents isolating but children going in, I think it's tempting to look at things from a slightly privileged bubble. We may well be able to keep children at home, entertained/ educated, with their own rooms and the ability for us to have a few days fully paid off work, or our own office to wfh in, if we feel up to it. Others may not be so lucky and home environments may not be pleasant or safe places to be. We can't really judge people doing what they are allowed to do - especially not children!