Dancing with tiers in my eyes, Weeping for the memory of a life gone by

[dancemom]

New thread, a very appropriate title I feel ...

SSD I really appreciate many of your posts. I don't say much at the present but that's because much of what I think has already been posted. For me, you articulate the stress, conflicted emotions, frustration for your DC etc really clearly. Does that count as fan girly?

@Lidlfix

SSD I really appreciate many of your posts. I don't say much at the present but that's because much of what I think has already been posted. For me, you articulate the stress, conflicted emotions, frustration for your DC etc really clearly. Does that count as fan girly?

Yes this! I'll fangirl you ssd

Im blushing now @Lidlfix ,but thanks. I actually wouldn't even know how to change my name on here, too much of a faff for me

@ResilienceWanker

@titsintiers

I saw that *@Haudyourwheesht* but had to close that thread as too many people fangirling over anyfucker, who comes across as a bit of dobber to me.

And EatShitDerek

Never did anything for me but on and on the legend goes...

@Lidlfix I’m very supportive of teachers and appreciative of all your efforts. I’ve said that loads of times.

I absolutely despise the EIS and Larry. They do not prioritise children. Always screeching for school closures/masks/vaccines. I’m totally sick of it.

I know that but your comment which I (and some other teachers on the thread) found offensive) wasn't supportive. It was then clarified that you meant vaccinations. Now extended to closures and masks . None of my colleagues want schools closed again and would prefer ways to ensure they remain open and measures to allow us to continue to our jobs in a reasonable way made a focus. But teaching unions UK wide (regardless of my view on Larry Flannigan or the EIS which I left when they sold out supply teachers) are not the only voices speaking up about vaccinations and mitigations such as ventilation . There are also parents groups and medics who would prefer 12-15 year olds to have a choice. Do they not give a fuck either? You being sick of it is how you feel and others being eager to put their view forward is their right too. Being of a different view to yours is does not mean not giving a fuck about kids. It's simply having a different opinion on the matter.

@Lidlfix I too left the EiS over supply teachers, and the fact they continued to defend a colleague who was harming children's education and their self esteem.

I am a teacher in a large city centre school. My windows are wide open, extraction on, and I will teach in a coat and gloves for the winter.

But, the mask thing is a nightmare. I teach English. You can't discuss anything. I had once pupil having a severe panic attack in June but only realised when she started to shake. Masks conceal tears, pupils who don't understand, pupils who are not engaged in learning, pupils who are keen to take part.

In some ways, I had better contact with SOME pupils online.

And pupils feel blamed for spikes in infection. They follow the rules. Cases go up. It is their fault.

I found myself encouraging my Higher class, all now voters, to do their letter writing and push MSPs to at least debate masks in schools. The SNP has taken entirely too much control away from the individual and I no longer have the right to decide what to wear or not wear on my face.

And, meanwhile, in the chamber, they are unmasked - because you can't possibly discuss something in politics with a mask. But in the classroom, it is a magic spell against infection.

Oh, and now, on a legal school trip to a play (full masked, of course) teachers, and those over 18 have to supply vaccine status at a Glasgow theatre. Found out on Friday - 6 days notice. So, to run a school trip now you have to be proved negative or have been vaccinated.

Now whose rights are being trampled on?

My new built school has windows which open about 3 inches, Extraction - non existent. Still waiting for CO2 monitors. I teach English too and find reading for long spells in a mask challenging but am fine the rest of the time including discussions. But that's just my experience, some colleagues hate them, some (including a colleague just returned after breast cancer) wear a mask, visor and have installed a screen. Everyone is different.

I don't like the increasing raft of impositions either and the prospect of trying to help my DF obtain his proof of vaccination to go to his beloved football fills me with dread.

You'd think as a minimum that they'd give teachers the right to decide whether they wanted masks to be voluntary in their own classrooms.

@Cismyfatarse it's always made me mad that politicians both here and south of the border don't wear masks, but make the rest of us do it. Particularly now in Scotland when it's out of step with England. Either masks are terribly important and we should all be wearing them, or they're not.

Same way as they couldn't possibly wfh and do their wee debates over teams.

It's already our fault if we get Covid since we clearly didn't stay 2 metres away. I agree about individual choice but think that would be handing them a stick to beat us with. We had parental complaints about a mask exempt teacher putting children at risk so there are evidently parents who want teachers and pupils masked, they're just not on Scotsnet . There are already talks underway to remove full pay for isolation for unvaccinated (through choice) teachers, led by educational officials who are working from home and not impacted by isolation whatsoever.

The majority of parents at my large NL school are very pro mask and like @Lidlfix we have had many complaints about an exempt teacher. A small but very vocal minority are furious that their children are being asked to wear masks.

How can we possibly win?

People need to realise that there is no right or wrong bit oppositional viewpoints.

There are already talks underway to remove full pay for isolation for unvaccinated (through choice) teachers, led by educational officials who are working from home and not impacted by isolation *whatsoever
*
I think this policy will apply to all council employees not just teachers.
Perhaps could even be rolled out to all public sector?

All those councils employees WFH must be really concerned . My COSLA mole said teachers/early years educators only at the moment as that's where the impact of isolation is felt the most. If it was all public sector workers it would still be unfair on one sector of society. I am pro vax, as an individual choice, and double vaxed but still feel strongly about the coercive aspect.

So, to run a school trip now you have to be proved negative or have been vaccinated.

Now whose rights are being trampled on?

Um, no one’s. You have two options. You’re getting to see a play. No one’s ‘rights’ are in the slightest being trampled on. Ridiculous attitude.

I agree re the coercion. Also double jagged here as are all family but if I knew it was going to run out before we got a chance to do anything then I might not have bothered.

Definitely personal choice needs to be allowed. I mean people still get sick leave if they break a leg skiing. Are we all supposed to avoid any risk at any time?

It's always been the narrative that individuals are blamed for catching covid, it must be their fault for not distancing enough or washing their hands properly or some other transgression. It's a virus, to we blame people for catching other viruses? What about fining people for getting the flu? Where are we going with all this? The damage to mental health on everyone is extensive but especially on the youth who've been constantly blamed and we know how poor mental health services are for that group.

@ElephantOfRisk I don't think the policy would apply if individual caught COVID. It's the 10 day isolation for being close contact but negative pcr. That's my understanding.

[quote sartorius]@ElephantOfRisk I don't think the policy would apply if individual caught COVID. It's the 10 day isolation for being close contact but negative pcr. That's my understanding.

[/quote]
Yes, but also how is this their fault? If they suspect someone is taking the piss then they need to deal with that individual, not create a policy that punishes people for living their life.

@AnnabelleMontgomery

So, to run a school trip now you have to be proved negative or have been vaccinated.

Now whose rights are being trampled on?

Um, no one’s. You have two options. You’re getting to see a play. No one’s ‘rights’ are in the slightest being trampled on. Ridiculous attitude.

The problem is that we run trips because it supports pupils' learning. It is our job. We got 6 days warning of this (not yet lawful) change in policy.

And "getting to see a play" is far from the reality of the planning and work needed to take 80 pupils to the theatre. And it is a play I have seen many, many times (I think 12, might be more).

So, we do have a choice. But choosing not to go means pupils don't have a choice to go.

@Cismyfatarse presumably the vaccinated teachers could take them?

Is the theatre asking for a negative LFT or a PCR? The latter would be much harder to get, and to get at the right time.
Mumsnet made me stop volunteering for trips a long time ago, the level of blame/distrust/downright nonsense (why don't teachers have to pay to go to a muddy hostel to watch your dc canoeing, etc).
I've been at an event recently that required negative LFTs, looking round the large number of people inside it did give me some reassurance (being double vaxed did not make a difference)

[quote forfucksakenett]@Cismyfatarse presumably the vaccinated teachers could take them? [/quote]
And we are, fortunately, all vaccinated in my department.

I am not really articulating why it annoys me so much. I think, probably, it is the fact that my job, as trip leader, now requires me to hold medical information about colleagues. It makes me uncomfortable having to ask that, although they are all lovely, and happy to oblige.

However, we are very unlikely to run large trips with S6 pupils because of the additional bureaucracy in determining vaccine / negative test status in the over 18s.

Will the age of having to prove these things go down to 16, now they are jagging younger kids? Or 12?

Can you imagine having to ensure proof from 80+ pupils to see a play?

And what happens when you get there and someone has lost it / their phone is out of charge / they did it too early / late / they just arrived from abroad and are not jagged?

I am not sure that it has been very well thought through. And it is a further burden on those of us trying to get things back to business as usual in schools.

Sorry. Am grumpy today.

Ha yes @Mistressiggi

I have teachers in my family.
The thing I never say is " have a good holiday" to the teachers going on school trip!
I know to say " I really take my hat of to you guys, your very brave!!"
And thank you of course

Trips are a hassle anyway and it's the same as any other. You need to make sure they have a variety of things (permission form, money, passport etc) usually on a trip anyway so it's just one more thing.

I'm not sure it's anything to get worked up about but then to be fair I'm not in the middle of organising a trip which is stressful at the best of times.

I also wonder if 'holding medical information as trip leader' is perhaps overstating it a bit? The burden isn't on you to hold the information really. Everyone knows the rules and so if a member of staff is there then everyone knows they are double vaccinated. If a member of staff isn't double vaccinated then they can choose to disclose that to you or not. They could just say they didn't want to do the trip surely?

Like others I am very uncomfortable though with the idea that people who don't want to be vaccinated will be forced to through the potential financial implications surrounding isolation. It's a tricky one.