Dancing with tiers in my eyes, Weeping for the memory of a life gone by

[dancemom]

New thread, a very appropriate title I feel ...

Are people in England not encouraged to test like we are then?

I don't think anyone is judging children.

@ssd

Are people in England not encouraged to test like we are then?

In England, if someone is a contact I don't think they have to take PCR test if they are double jagged and don't have symptoms. Whereas we are still trying to pick up asymptotic infections. Germany are also stopping testing people who don't have symptoms if they are vaccinated

One of the local primary schools here have been sending whole tables home to be tested if one child has tested positive.

But are they technically not classed as close contacts anymore then?

@ssd

Are people in England not encouraged to test like we are then?

They are encouraged, but it's not "required". I'm not sure it is here, legally, but the SG website definitely says you must isolate until your pcr comes back negative. Whereas the English guidance just says you are advised to have a pcr test as soon as possible.

@runningpink

One of the local primary schools here have been sending whole tables home to be tested if one child has tested positive.

But are they technically not classed as close contacts anymore then?

I think they are only close contacts if advised by test and protect. And t and p only knows if the positive person identifies them as such, and is able to provide their contact details to t and p. The school shouldn't be identifying children that they consider to be close contacts (to avoid whole classes being sent home and to reduce workload on schools) - though I have no doubt some are.

@runningpink

One of the local primary schools here have been sending whole tables home to be tested if one child has tested positive.

But are they technically not classed as close contacts anymore then?

Nope! Not under the guidance and they shouldn't be doing so!

@ssd

Are people in England not encouraged to test like we are then?

As others have said its encouraged but not a you have to in order to be released from isolation.

Reality is though that the vast majority of employers are insisting that they do before returning to work as part of covid policy same with schools.

DN at his school in England has to show negative lft test result before going back from the summer as well with another conducted at school on the first day back with results read and any positives sent home.

To be clear I am not judging parents for sending their kids in at all. They're following the rules, and actually they've kept them home for a few days longer than they had to. It's just that the rules are stupid!

@forfucksakenett

It's very bizarre. I can only assume that they are not really trying to suppress the virus. Letting it spread in a semi controlled way?

I've also noticed this @forfucksakenett. They (by which I mean Scottish and UK administrations) don't really seem to be doing anything tangible to counter the super high spread beyond producing a few adverts that are surely just pissing people off at this point; they are essentially letting us get on with it regardless and are even allowing mass events to go ahead. Then there's the seemingly bizarre reluctance to update the official symptoms, despite ample evidence it's basically a cold in vaccinated people and children, when this must mean lots of cases are going under the radar and contributing to spread.

I can only assume that they realise, as a few experts have said out loud now, that natural infection will give broader immunity that is more resistant to variants than the vaccines, and thus we kind of need people to get the infection to top up their immunity. The vaccine takes the edge off the severity very effectively, but it wears off a bit, so better that people get the infection while it's still relatively fresh. Of course, they can't say any of this out loud or they'd be shredded by the press, so we get 'warnings' about being careful to give the impression of doing something, but no action that would actually be effective.

Thanks for clarifying.

Those poor kids. I know they were pulled out of class, and had to sit in a different part of the school and wait for parents to collect. One wee boy thought he had done something wrong and broke down in tears when he got home.
That’s no way to treat kids. This was a bunch of 6 year olds.

The only ‘official’ symptom I have is loss of smell and taste. Otherwise it’s the headache, runny nose, sinus congestion and aches and pains.

It’s so strange. I think half of the school families have it, and yet siblings are being sent in, grandparents are picking up and dropping off, everything is back to normal.

I suppose this would make reverting to the original isolation measures more effective. Maybe that’s the first strategy in the winter policy.

Then there's the seemingly bizarre reluctance to update the official symptoms, despite ample evidence it's basically a cold in vaccinated people and children

I've been wondering about this for ages. Even before such high vaccination/ change in the isolation policy etc, we did know that things like headaches, sore throat, runny nose etc were symptoms of the delta variant, and possibly some of the other variants too - just not so common with Original Covid (TM). So when they WERE trying to keep covid off the streets, there must have been loads of people walking around feeling a bit grim, but technically ineligible for a PCR test as they weren't a known contact, and didn't have any of the Big 3 symptoms.

I suppose it was originally that there weren't enough tests, and that isolating as a precaution for a cold wasn't proportionate and too disruptive. But now isolation is only til a neg test comes back, I'm not sure why they are still sticking stubbornly with the big 3.

I had all 3 "main" symptoms, but my first feeling something was wrong was a headache and sore throat, which I powered through on the assumption I had slept funny and was a bit hungover and tired. I only had a fever a couple of days later, then a mild cough (which I wouldn't have put down to anything under normal circumstances) and on about day 4 my smell and taste buggered off, which was not like any other symptom of anything else I've ever had! Presumably they are sticking with those 3 as they cover all possible variants, not just flavour-of-the-month delta, but it does seem a bit narrow given the prevalence of that variant.

It may well be that they aren't so worried about some spread now vaccination is so high, and evidence shows that children and recently vaccinated people aren't too badly affected. But they obviously can't say that, and have to stick with the "a small proportion of a big number is still a big number" routine re hospitalisation and deaths. But I wish that by doing that, there wasn't the constant sense of Doom that they are thinking about reintroducing restrictions, if actually the plan is to let it spread and increase natural immunity.

Ive heard of people being told by test and trace they have to have one of the three main symptoms to determine when they start isolating...but if they dont have them they cant tell them when to start or stop isolating. Its crazy.

I do think that the media are misrepresenting the press conferences somewhat. NS says there are no plans to introduce restrictions at present. Journalist asks are there plans to introduce restrictions in the future. NS says we'll, of course I can't say there will never be restrictions again. Headline screams 'NS THREATENS FURTHER RESTRICTIONS!'

@ssd

Ive heard of people being told by test and trace they have to have one of the three main symptoms to determine when they start isolating...but if they dont have them they cant tell them when to start or stop isolating. Its crazy.

Yes, that too! Though in that case they start isolation on the date of your positive test, even if you were ill before then.

DSs main symptom was a headache and his "eyeballs hurting" one evening. He was a bit hot too, so we gave him calpol. Next day he was absolutely fine, and back to bouncing around, but he and DH went to get tested as a close contact of me. DSs was void, and then a bit of miscommunication between me and DH meant we didn't get his repeat test til about 4 days later, which came back positive. So when t and p called I did slightly embellish his "feeling a bit hot" to having a fever, so his isolation could stop a few days earlier than it would have otherwise if they just went for the date of the positive test.

@Haudyourwheesht

I do think that the media are misrepresenting the press conferences somewhat. NS says there are no plans to introduce restrictions at present. Journalist asks are there plans to introduce restrictions in the future. NS says we'll, of course I can't say there will never be restrictions again. Headline screams 'NS THREATENS FURTHER RESTRICTIONS!'

True! But then you have JL et al saying hospitality will be first against the wall if furlough has gone when we have to reintroduce restrictions, so it all seems a bit of a hollow reassurance. And there's the constant undertone of "not doing anything at the moment but a big number is still a big number... keeping things under review.. pivotal and precarious moment..." BoJo/ whitty etc said the same thing about maybe having to revisit things over winter, but there seems a lot more confidence down south that no changes are imminent (though admittedly their numbers are more stable at the moment) and there isn't the continuous rumble of impending threat that we seem to get no matter how low our numbers are. Even if not from NS herself, but from advisors, ministers and other government bods.

@ResilienceWanker completely agree its the continual undertone threat which leads to the anxiety which friends in England just don't have at all currently. They are all aware things may have to change in Winter but for time being don't feel the same level of uncertainty.
It's the what's going to be announced this week etc, wait for the next lecture and threat. Its no way to live!

We have given up now and just ignoring most of it we do our own are we comfortable with doing x. I will do a lft if a friend asks or if I need to check for DS (I am not testing him again at all unless a Dr insists).
I certainly won't be going back into hibernation again for 4 months! DH lost his grandad a month ago and it just feels like we wasted memory chances such as Christmas. I'm so glad we ignored the just because you can travel doesn't mean you should message last October and in April as it meant he got some time.

I know what you mean @Scottishskifun and we're the same, living while we can! I'm not deliberately reckless, but I really regret not making the most of what little freedom we had last year, and so we're out and about at restaurants and cinemas (with the kids especially) much more than we would normally be! The underlying threat that it all might be taken away at any moment, and the periodic lectures about being cautious to keep us on track makes me want to live it up while I can even more! Given how busy most places are I suspect a lot of people are taking the same view, whether that is what the SG intends (if they do secretly want to up natural infection rates) or not.

I don't understand the TV ads either urging caution. If they don't want us to meet inside etc. etc. well they do have the ability to stop people doing just that.

We're nowhere near normal yet. DPs weren't allowed to spectate at rugby at the weekend at DSs school, but presumably this is because the school is worried about rising infection rates, rather than this being from the government.

It's pretty clear that the outcome of current guidelines is that covid will continue to spread - I thought that was the stated plan at least of the BG to get as many infections out of the way before winter. But I don't know what SG aim is - keep hospitalisations at a manageable rate by hectoring people through patronising advertising, doesn't seem very well thought through.

@rookiemere as far as I can tell SG aim is not to loose face against WM for their strategy compared to theirs...... So far it seems to be backfiring spectacularly!

Well @Scottishskifun we are very different from England at the minute as in our numbers are a lot higher .

@rookiemere the more I think about it, I think that the SG plan is more or less the same as England's - get the infections out of the way before the winter rush and resurgence of flu etc. They cocked up the timings though, so whereas England opened up society at the start of the school holidays and has had a more steady infection rate throughout, we did the reopening on top of school opening and now have record high infection rates again. We may also be getting 'punished' for lower infection rates previously if we have less natural immunity as a result. They kind of have to push through though, or else be the only part of the UK to go backwards, and since we're already looking in a less favourable position that England they'll be keen to avoid that. It's only delaying the inevitable anyway as everyone will eventually get COVID.

It does also explain the piss poor communications too, especially that latest Janey Godley advert. All joking aside, they must know that she's quite a marmite character who will immediately turn a lot of people off, and the thick dialect (even in the subtitles!) is genuinely difficult for a lot of people to understand. It's either incompetence (very possible), or a deliberate ploy to limit the number of people who will take notice, and hence we'll still get a trickle of infection.

@rookiemere

Well *@Scottishskifun* we are very different from England at the minute as in our numbers are a lot higher .

Ha yep! I'm just remembering the rhetoric of big bad infected England and idiots at the border saying go home etc etc.

It's gone very quiet on that front we have had friends cancel their trips to Scotland though they can't take the risk with time off work! Which is the economical impact of the SG "strategy" backfiring!

I think the adverts are quite dangerous as they reinforce the belief that many have, which is that catching covid is because somehow you've not been careful rather than it being currently a pretty endemic virus.

It's easy for those of us with school or uni age DCs or in jobs that need to be done face to face, to see through that ploy as we have no alternative but to face the potential risk, but for retired people like my DPs or my friend who lives on her own they're much more likely to restrict their movements accordingly.

My DF ( who is sadly a racist snob) has decided that our family is less likely to catch covid as we live in a "naice" area, there may be some truth in that as we're not in cramped social housing, but as covid is running rife through DSs private school, perhaps not so much.