Dancing with tiers in my eyes, Weeping for the memory of a life gone by

[dancemom]

New thread, a very appropriate title I feel ...

For Unis vaccinating hasn't made it any more likely that students will get normal experience.

Yes - this is very true. I think it's kind of this shifting of the goalposts which would make me think twice if I had a 12 year old cos I'm a thrawn cow. If I was convinced that allowing vaccines would mean we could treat covid like anything else (off when you're ill, for as long as you're ill - go about life if you're not ill - maybe think twice about going to see vulnerable people if you've been around anyone ill) I'd be more willing.

But given the entire adult population is now basically vaccinated and we've still got masks, track and trace, 10 day isolation for infected people, limits on events, online lectures in uni, recommended to socialise outside, twice weekly LFTs to go to school or the office... It's not suggesting to me that risking the health of my 12yo for the "good of society" is actually going to make that much change to how society is operating. Because they will then move onto "oh, under 12s aren't vaccinated" or "not everyone who is eligible has taken up the vaccine" or "people haven't had boosters" or "vaccination doesn't stop transmission" or "oooooohhhh, new variant"...

Call me Ms Cynical, but I'm not filled with confidence that us being good citizens is going to mean they uphold their end of the bargain.

Yes exactly my sense, if there is a compelling case based on social benefits they need to be spelled out, and delivered, particularly around that age group in school.

I've followed the JCVI deliberations and statements/minutes about various vaccines for many years now, and I can't remember them ever getting so much pressure from political figures, or ministers not simply accepting and implementing their advice in full without question. Sure, ministers have always technically had the final say, but in practice they've always implemented what the JCVI says. This deferral to CMOs is very unusual and to me says there's been a lot of wrangling behind the scenes to keep the door open for vaccinating 12-15s while not technically going against the JCVI (although it's pretty clear they have serious reservations against it).

I do genuinely struggle to understand the point at this stage though. Everyone agrees it's not for the children themselves, but will adding another small demographic really make that much difference to the tsunami of cases? Especially by the time they've been jagged? Educational disruption is because of testing and isolations, which will still apply even if jagged. Much better to only test people who are ill. We also now know that herd immunity isn't possible, so you can't even use that argument any more.

I can't help thinking this whole political push is for very little benefit, but instead has undermined trust in and respect for the JCVI, and perhaps made people question vaccines in children more generally. I think I saw some data indicating that vaccination rates for other childhood vaccines (the ones that actually protect children so are much more important than COVID vaccination) had reduced.

Yes.

Apparently the normal secondary school vaccines are down 20% on usual uptake due to disruption. That includes the meningitis vaccine. I know someone who went away for the weekend and found their student daughter dead from meningitis when they got home. I have no idea why we are fixated on Covid rather than meningitis in this age range.

Just as concerning as the missed meningitis vaccinations has been the advice to stay at home and isolate with Covid symptoms rather than make sure it isn't something else - I know of cases of bacterial infections in students missed due to this.

And in Scotland the teaching unions have now waded in saying vaccine "is being withheld from children" (Larry flannigsn just been on reporting Scotland)
It worries me the unions will refuse to have current school restrictions lifted unless secondary kids vaccinated.
And I think America has shown the more you politicise vaccines the lowered the uptake

You know teaching unions are just teachers, right? What an inflammatory comment.

Straight out of UFT handbook.

Teachers Unions give many a fuck about kids. Is that you Jo? Totally offensive comment. I am surprised and disappointed

I mean about the vaccine

Of course they care about kids.

I wish they would put some cameras in schools just now to show what the impact of all this is and what those people who supposedly don't give a fuck about kids are doing to try and ensure as smooth an experience for learners as possible. 🤷🏻‍♀️

That guy from the eis does not come across well.

I, personally, can't stand Larry (mega salary) Flannigan and (in my finest BBC voice) other teaching unions are available. But surely you can see that your comment was brutal and didn't give context? Double vaxed teachers are getting Covid - because lots of people in many jobs are. My school has pupils off in every class. Teachers (double vaxed) but at home with their own kids who have Covid. We are running ragged teaching classes in front of us and providing work for those at home and covering for colleagues . We wish our unions were doing more to ensure we can continue to do that, but with a bit less running ragged.

• 6,152 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 51,031 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 12.9% of these were positive
• 11 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 58 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 670 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,117,147 people have received the first dose of the Covid vaccination and 3,717,587 have received their second dose

Sorry guys had visitors today and just picking up my phone

Shameful service I know

How dare you have a life outside this thread dancemom! We need you for the numbers.... (thanks! And hope you had a great time!). I'm not counting any chickens, but the numbers do seem to have stopped going up quite so scarily, and seem to be coming down slowly in some age groups (probably cos they have all had it now!). Fingers crossed....

Just as concerning as the missed meningitis vaccinations has been the advice to stay at home and isolate with Covid symptoms rather than make sure it isn't something else - I know of cases of bacterial infections in students missed due to this.

Yes, this has worried me for a while... There is so much emphasis on not even thinking about leaving the house, going to A and E, or seeking any form of help other than having neighbours drop paracetamol through your letterbox if you have covid, or even if you think you may have covid. OK, if you've tested positive, your symptoms may well be covid, but not necessarily. And meningitis in particular is notorious for having symptoms that could be basically anything (cold, flu, hangover...). I'm really surprised there hasn't been warnings/ adverts for things that aren't covid and you really need to be looking out for symptoms for, and telling you not to hesitate to get help for them, regardless what else you think you may have!

Don't worry @ResilienceWanker, I won't make a habit of it 😆

Hope you've got a letter from your mother @dancemom

Dear scotsnetters,
Dancemom was late today because she seems to think she has more important things to do on a Saturday!

😆😆😆

@ResilienceWanker

Oh haudyourwheesht - thanks for your comment on the names thread . I've just seen the notification I got and don't want to reactivate the thread which seems to have has tailed off naturally now - but I'm glad you like it! It's not really "my" name anyway - I stole it off someone who admitted to being a bit of a resilience wanker on the railing thread, when everyone was railing against being told to "look on the bright side", "count your blessings" "start a thankfulness diary" and other such wankery, over lockdown. Obviously, they meant they found some of those kind of MH tools useful to them - but the phrase just tickled me

I also suspect that a lot of people may not have found it as funny had I elaborated on the reasons for it. A lot of po-facedness regarding covid still. But I found it funny.

Hello 👋🏻 resilience wanker here although I was using a different username at the time.

Sadly, having adopted zero strategies, I still lack resilience but am very much still a wanker.

Every time I see your name I smile and think of my failings 🤣

I saw that @Haudyourwheesht but had to close that thread as too many people fangirling over anyfucker, who comes across as a bit of dobber to me.

Haha! No need to feel a failure. Wankery of whatever form is highly underrated. I'm not a resilience kind of person (no surprise there) but I kind of get through the day anyhow. Swearing and wine, mostly, but it works for me - though, no, may not go down so well elsewhere on the site. But thanks for letting me nick the idea...

Im pissed off nae c... ever fangirls over me and ive been here forever

Im changing my name to fangirlwanker

@ResilienceWanker

Haha! No need to feel a failure. Wankery of whatever form is highly underrated. I'm not a resilience kind of person (no surprise there) but I kind of get through the day anyhow. Swearing and wine, mostly, but it works for me - though, no, may not go down so well elsewhere on the site. But thanks for letting me nick the idea...

I think it's an important concept the world needs to know about and you are Doug great work out there 🤣

@ssd I love that but would be gutted if you changed your name. You must be close to being an original Mumsnetter?