Dancing with tiers in my eyes, Weeping for the memory of a life gone by

[dancemom]

New thread, a very appropriate title I feel ...

So I think that this story is interesting today - vaccine effectiveness is considerably lower in shielders than in the general population (66% vs 93%). I wonder if this might partly explain Scotland's unexpectedly hard time this summer after opening up compared with the other UK nations. I've long wondered if vaccine effectiveness was lower up here for whatever reason leaving us less protected, and this might play into that. I seem to remember that we had a higher proportion of clinically vulnerable people up here, and if general health is a predictor of vaccine effectiveness our poorer general health might also be a factor.

Of course, this all assumes that the differences are because of factors intrinsic to the CEV patients. I suppose it's also plausible that shielders, by definition, are less likely to have been exposed to COVID19 and thus to have natural immunity (which as John Campbell explained a few weeks ago increases the effectiveness of the vaccine). Shielding people are therefore wholly dependent on the more fragile vaccine-mediated immunity, and so more susceptible to variants like delta.

That is interesting @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us. I wonder what it means for shielding as a concept? Was it the right call long term? On a scientific level it’s really interesting. Tricky for those who are ECV though.

Unless i'm reading it wrong, surely it's just saying that the cev population are still more likely to end up in hospital after catching covid which isn't to do with having less immunity, it's just that they are more likely to be ill or have complications that the general population? So it's not that the vaccine is less effective in building a level of immunity per se, just that their propensity to be more vulnerable is still there and not evened out by the vaccine?

I might be reading it wrong though.

Yea, @ElephantOfRisk, I think that'd be my understanding too. The CEV (including the very elderly) are starting from a very vulnerable point, so even with the vaccine they're still more likely to become very ill. The vaccine makes them less likely to become ill but they're still more likely than healthy people.

• 2,870* new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 26,593* new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 11.7%* of these were positive
• 18 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 94 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 1,107 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,160,835 people have received their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccination and 3,813,547 have received their second dose
*Please note that NHS Borders Lab have not submitted lab files since 1pm on Monday 20 September, investigation into this issue is ongoing. Please also note the issue relating to the submission of files from NHS Grampian Lab, reported yesterday, is now resolved. All files from NHS Grampian Lab have been received and processed and are included in today’s figures.

That's a big drop from last week!
Either people are stopping testing or so many have now had covid that's there is less people available!

Free us, Nicola!

Had to test my youngest today and went to the airport (eh why is it like the zombies have landed at that test site?) walk through nothing like that. But there was like 1000 appointments available and that was at lunchtime

@WouldBeGood

Free us, Nicola!

God lives a trier @WouldBeGood

That's a really good drop and anecdotally it seems to be dropping down in schools as well

• at least ours.

@titsintiers hadn’t said it for a while 🤣

• 3,598 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 49,597 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 7.8% of these were positive
• 31 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 82 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 1,076 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,163,235 people have received their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccination and 3,815,907 have received their second dose

Apparently the nightclub industry association is taking the government to court over the vaccine passports. Saying, quite rightly, that it's not fair or proportionate to reach whatever public health aim the SG are going for. And that some places that aren't actually nightclubs will be covered by their new definition. It's all a total shambles, unsurprisingly - and the gov hasn't even published their guidance as to how the scheme will work in practice, when it's supposed to start in a week or so . You do wonder what is going on in their heads, really,

I feel encouraged by today's numbers. Wednesday usually has the highest number of cases. The positivity rate is going down too.

I think we're definitely past the peak now 😁. Should be nice and low just in time for vaccine passports to come in 🙄.

I'm really hoping that the legal action forces some kind of reversal because this really is spectacularly badly thought through. Leaving aside the many logistical and ethical problems that will mean it's the usual SG shit show, the logic doesn't even stack up. They accept that vaccines don't stop people getting infected or spreading it (as per those lovely adverts), and they refuse to acknowledge that immunity (such as it is) can equally come from natural infection.

If the aim was to prevent infected people getting in, a negative test would be more useful. But then apparently (as per NS yesterday) the aim instead is to try and coerce people to get vaccinated rather than to stop infection. It's a shame they don't seem to be aware of the large body of research that suggests these kinds of tactics tend to harden anti-vax views rather than soften them.

I'm sure the aim of vaccine passport is exactly the same as BJs was (except I don't believe he ever intended going ahead with it when he gave 2 months notice)
It's to raise vaccine uptake in certain groups.
It may be presented as reducing transmission but no-one actually believes that

And I'm really encouraged by today's stats too (thanks @dancemom )
Think the next week will be real indicator of how well the vaccines are doing
Students are all back last week and this week swe would expect to see any rise in cases coming through very soon.
Uptake in university sector is high though so 🤞

Yes, it's good news on the numbers. Seems to be over 1k down since last week on average - even with high testing - which is pretty good going. Suggesting that, yes, the virus is doing its thing in the population, and we're having rises and falls of case numbers seemingly unrelated to any actions we may be taking! Making the passport thing utterly inexplicable - and targeting seemingly "young persons things" even more inexplicable - given the vaccine is of most benefit to those who would otherwise have much higher risk of serious disease without it.

I am heartened by the lower numbers.

Unfortunately vaccine passport is typical Scottish Government style stick rather than carrot. Bring in the English changes to travel and allow people to save ££ on testing by being double vaccinated, and I'm sure a fair number of vaccine sceptics might just go for it.

But no SG has to think on things a wee while longer than England. Really wish our half term trip wasn't already booked or we'd fly from Newcastle.

Has anyone’s 12 year old had the vaccine yet? Toying with taking my son to a drop in centre this week.

Mine's almost 14 but yes we went this week.

@LoopyGremlin yes, went on Monday. Sore arm for a day, a little bit shivery about 24 hours afterwards, but quickly improved with some paracetamol.

@LoopyGremlin

Has anyone’s 12 year old had the vaccine yet? Toying with taking my son to a drop in centre this week.

We aren’t getting it I’m going to stick with JCVI

[quote WhatWouldTheDoctorDo]@LoopyGremlin yes, went on Monday. Sore arm for a day, a little bit shivery about 24 hours afterwards, but quickly improved with some paracetamol. [/quote]
Thanks. Was wondering about the side effects as we are actually going away for the weekend so maybe I’ll leave it until next week.

DS 15 had his last night. Sore arm this morning but nothing else reported.