Dancing with tiers in my eyes, Weeping for the memory of a life gone by

[dancemom]

New thread, a very appropriate title I feel ...

I know I know. I bore myself. But it’s such an important distinction.

Promise i won’t say it again

I think we're all bloody bored of it all now tbf.

I agree it doesn't matter in terms of NHS resources but it does matter in terms of the narrative that people are being fed. It just continues to add to the fear and anxiety about covid by inflating figures. If people aren't ill then we shouldn't be counting them as "cases".

Exactly. If it was NHS resources we were specifically supposed to be concerned about, they'd cite what % of all ICU beds were taken up, or how many people were admitted to hospital for any reason. But it's not - it's "with covid" because covid is dangerous and can kill people, so we all need to be careful not to spread it or catch it. So if those people in hospital/ ICU happen to have covid, but are actually ill with ongoing heart issues or meningitis or something unrelated to the covid (albeit that could cause additional problems in some cases, just like flu or RSV or noro could in people already weakened from hospital treatment) there is really no need to mention they have covid at all - or at least separate them out from people being treated for covid complications. They'd have been just as much a "user of NHS resources" (or maybe "patient" would be a better word ) in 2019.

To be fair, every day I'm glad this isn't Ebola!

Me too @ResilienceWanker! I would be scared of that 🤣

See. My positive thinking look-on-the-bright-side resilience training is working.

Announcement today, guessing it's about vaccines for teenagers

@ResilienceWanker

See. My positive thinking look-on-the-bright-side resilience training is working.

So it is

The majority of people (especially at the beginning) who died from covid didn't see an icu bed or even hospital as they were already in care facilities with a dnr in place. That changed throughout the months and it would be interesting to know how many folk who wind up in hospital/icu because of covid recover and are discharged rather than folk with covid who've sadly died from a heart attack. Obviously there will be a number of patients for whom it's not clear cut so I do appreciate that it might not always be easy to say, but there must be more accurate figures possible.

Inspirational @ResilienceWanker 😃

@ElephantOfRisk

I agree it doesn't matter in terms of NHS resources but it does matter in terms of the narrative that people are being fed. It just continues to add to the fear and anxiety about covid by inflating figures. If people aren't ill then we shouldn't be counting them as "cases".

I get all of that, but we literally have this exact discussion on these threads about 3-4 times a week.

Yes we do. And yet still posters think that the stats we are given represent something else. We've actually been having the same discussion for months and months and still in the same position.

Great that you get it, but many people don't and you can scroll by...

I agree that the language does matter in that it influences what people understand the risks to be. Stating the numbers 'with COVID' without clarifying the proportion for which COVID is just incidental rather than actually making them very sick is overstating the problem. I'm thinking of Humza's pretty disgraceful misrepresentation of the children in hospital stats for example, when he noted that more children were in hospital 'with COVID' and went on to say that children were therefore more at risk 'from COVID' (when trying to scare parents out of soft plays I think). Paediatricians had to clarify that children were in fact still at negligible risk from COVID and that parents shouldn't worry.

@ElephantOfRisk

Yes we do. And yet still posters think that the stats we are given represent something else. We've actually been having the same discussion for months and months and still in the same position.

Great that you get it, but many people don't and you can scroll by...

To be fair, nobody knows anything with certainty when it comes to 'with' or 'because of'.

To be fair, nobody knows anything with certainty when it comes to 'with' or 'because of'.
This is true - covid could exacerbate existing conditions I suppose, or a new condition/ emergency could have been caused by the Covid even if you don't have any "standard" symptoms. But there are some admissions (accidents for example) that are definitely unrelated (even if you fell off a ladder while coughing, or were unable to smell the smoking chip pan, the injury is irrelevant to the Covid)! NHS England (or PHE or whatever they're called now? ) do manage it, though, and the ONS has said to the SG several times that it would be beneficial to collate this data to the best of their ability. So it's not just us going on about it maybe being important or useful to know!

@BlameItOnTheBlackStar

Oh god do we have to have this same conversation every day? Because of Covid or with Covid makes no difference to the amount of NHS resource required to treat the person in question.

I have to disagree. If, let's say for arguments sake a lot of these spaces were being taken up with cancer patients who happen also to be positive with Covid.....pre-Covid did you have daily stats rammed down your throats about the NHS resources those people were taking up? NO. so yes it use of NHS resources but because the data is so shit we don't actually know if these current people in ICU is actually any more of a drain on the NHS than it was in 2019. The narrative is often that all of this is additional strain ie the 90 would not have been there if not for Covid. I call bollocks to that.

Oh look we're having the discussion again

😇

• 3,375 new cases of COVID-19 reported
• 31,837* new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
◦ 11.4*% of these were positive
• 21 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
• 89 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 1,064 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19
• 4,144,904 people have received their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccination and 3,788,551 have received their second dose

Definite flatting of hospitalisations. Only up 16 since yesterday I think, and less than 100 over the last five days.

I see masks for secondary schools is now being extended to October break, after which it will be ‘reviewed again’.

This will be to force kids to get jagged.

Though I don’t believe they’ll lift restrictions anyway. Just one more lie.

@GoldenOmber

I see masks for secondary schools is now being extended to October break, after which it will be ‘reviewed again’.

Who'd have thunk it? Their "only up to six weeks" being "just another month"'d.

I do wish they’d say something, anything, about what their criteria are for lifting any of these restrictions. Is it going to be X% of teenagers vaccinated? Or overall cases below a certain number? Or what?

And I know that even asking this makes be sound like a heartless murder to some because it’s a global pandemic!!! but even in global pandemics, I feel that governments should not say things like “we won’t keep these measures in place a second longer than necessary” when they won’t share their own definition for “necessary” in the first place. It’s not even moving the goalposts, it’s refusing to say where they are in the first place.

That's quite a drop in cases today. I'd love it to be true because everyone might calm down a bit then but unfortunately I'm not buying it. Apart from anything else, there was supposed to be a backlog of cases that would be added on today. I guess we'll see what happens in the rest of the week. Perhaps we have genuinely peaked and will come back down again - sooner or later we'll run out of people to infect!