Guilt Free Railing 10

[WouldBeGood]

Is the end nigh?

@Lockdownbear aaargh! Biff and Chip, cold chill just being reminded of them 😂

@Scottishskifun to be honest I was just mega-confused by the whole "all three subjects but it's only equivalent to 2/3 of a GSCE in each".

Niece doesn't particularly want to do science A-levels but I can't see how doing two thirds of a GCSE in Biology stands you in good stead for an A-level later.

Also agree on Advanced Higher and going straight into 2nd year - I was offered this in 1990 when I applied after doing 2 CSYS exams, DS who is applying this year after doing 2 Advanced Highers had the option too.

Exactly @Scottishskifun regular exams / assessment. Not a whole year working up to one key end point.

I can see both sides of the exam/no exam debate. But this should have been pre-planned surely?

The Revised Highers of the 90s had 20 or 30% coursework and 80 or 70% exams
Changing the balance wouldn't be an issue but scrapping exams will result in Unis and employers wanting kids to sit their own entrance tests.

Much easier for coursework cheating than cheating in exams which are sat at the same time.

Mine are in private school in Edinburgh therefore school is free to choose its own path.

They broadly follow a Scottish curriculum but when the exams were changed a number of years ago they chose to do GCSEs instead of Nat 5s, then back to highers and AH.
They wanted the rigours of the 2 year GCSE course and felt Nat 5 course didn't give enough. They also felt it important to keep the breadth that highers offers.
They looked at all subjects carefully and the vast majority articulate very well. As pp pointed out, there's very little difference what's being taught at primary and early secondary. They have a lot joining for secondary from Edinburgh state primaries and from overseas.

GCSEs have a lot more exam papers though, 4 for English sat over 4 different days.

@TheGenealogist I don't recognise that triple science qualification. That must be a particular exam board they've chosen that offers that. There's 3 different exam boards.
Our school does separate chem, biol, physics.

I suppose what I'm saying is mixing up different systems is not necessarily the big problem people may perceive it to be. The content taught and exam methods are not really that different. Let's face it maths is maths!
As pp has pointed out the issue may be lack of choice.

Entrance tests for DC not experienced in formal exams and ones which would take up study time while DC concentrating on school assessments. Would it be a standard entry or would universities all want their own? Which should DC focus on?

@WouldBeGood

I can see both sides of the exam/no exam debate. But this should have been pre-planned surely?

It was to an extent. It just didn't work.

They tried to introduce units that were assessments in and of themselves that didn't correlate really to the end exam. This didn't work and it was too high a workload. We couldn't manage it. We didn't really understand the relevance and the rationale was communicate poorly. Pupils were confused about the relevance because the truth is that all our mindsets are focused on one end exam. Teachers, parents, pupils all of us in that mindset. The units quickly became irrelevant (to us) and ignored and scrapped.

Obviously in the background educational research trundles on and I think you'd be hard pushed to find an expert who says the current system of studying all year with one end point in mind is a good one.

I know it's controversial but the implementation of CfE was so radical that it was never going to be a quick fix or something that wasn't going to lead to ongoing change. As it should surely? What's working what's not. Let's reflect and make changes.

Numeracy and STEM seems has taken a hit as a consequence of CfE (our literacy levels are on par with the rest of the UK) and that seems to be very much on the agenda for improvement at school level going forward.

@forfucksakenett

Exactly *@Scottishskifun* regular exams / assessment. Not a whole year working up to one key end point.

Ah yeah I did AS/A level system which when I did it was based on coursework assessment throughout and exams at different points not solely an exam after the two years. I don't know if this is still the set up as I was the second or third year of the system.

Uni exams were twice a year (Jan and May).

@thegenealogist yeah it's the level of detail so it's known as double award but the level of detail is different whereas separate goes into higher level.

Ironically with science you pretty much get told at each level you go up when studying that what you learnt before is too simplistic or wrong 😂

I don't think there is a easy answer but I feel very sorry for the current cohort who are in complete limbo!

I hated CSYS English. It was really different and really rushed. I had hoped to do English at Uni and it put me right off.

I just wanted to take my time with my reading and enjoy it

But CSYS had so many texts to get through

Also agree that scrapping exams, or shifting to a model of 90% coursework and 10% exams would just lead to universities setting their own exams. Kids wanting to study medicine already have to do UCAT. That sort of thing would just be extended.

@Lockdownbear

The Revised Highers of the 90s had 20 or 30% coursework and 80 or 70% exams Changing the balance wouldn't be an issue but scrapping exams will result in Unis and employers wanting kids to sit their own entrance tests.

Much easier for coursework cheating than cheating in exams which are sat at the same time.

Exams wouldn't be scrapped. I can't see a system whereby there would be absolutely no formal exams.

It would be a healthier mix than we have now and we might see the opportunities to sit a few small formal exams throughout the year along with more assessable coursework.

If anything it would be more rigorous.

Ah, I see @forfucksakenett.

I find the whole theory of education fascinating, but don’t know what’s going on in schools.

@TheGenealogist

Also agree that scrapping exams, or shifting to a model of 90% coursework and 10% exams would just lead to universities setting their own exams. Kids wanting to study medicine already have to do UCAT. That sort of thing would just be extended.

Not if universities also see the benefits in moving away fro that model. Which some have.

I deferred my DS and it was absolutely the right decision for him... DTs have late September birthday and started in French system where school proper doesn't start until 6 so they had to play catch up when plans changed and we came home... One of them has since repeated a year on changing schools as she's Dyslexic and was struggling... that too was a good decision and she fits better socially with her new peers too, as does her elder (by 20 mins!) sister (13 going on 18!)

Oh, and their small private school follows SQA system

Most jobs face continuous ongoing pressures. You deal with multiple projects each with separate outcomes. You are judged constantly throughout the year on a case by case basis.

Our current education system in years S4-S6 does not reflect that in any way. For a lot of subjects it's a memory test. What can you remember about human biology after a years worth of work or study. It's not fair and it's not reflective of real life.

@Scottishskifun how did they determine your grade for A level then? Was it a mix of several exams and coursework? I didn't realise A Levels didn't have an end point exam.

In higher it's 30% externally marked coursework and 70% formal exam. There is a talk assessment but it doesn't influence your grade it just is a pass fail situation. You must pass to be presented for the exam.

Sorry I should say for higher English. It's different for other subjects of course.!

[quote forfucksakenett]@Scottishskifun how did they determine your grade for A level then? Was it a mix of several exams and coursework? I didn't realise A Levels didn't have an end point exam.

In higher it's 30% externally marked coursework and 70% formal exam. There is a talk assessment but it doesn't influence your grade it just is a pass fail situation. You must pass to be presented for the exam. [/quote]
Yep was coursework submissions over 2 years and a combo of AS level paper results and A2 level paper results as it was known giving the overall mark. You had the option to repeat a AS level paper when in A2 (usually January) if you had done badly the previous summer. I missed all my AS summer exams due to glandular fever so I took them all in the following January.

I don't know if they have changed the system since its been 18 years and we were one of the early years of the change. A levels used to be exams after 2 years of study.

Remember GCSEs and A levels were reformed about 5/6 years ago to remove a lot of the internal assessments.
There is still coursework but a lot more of the grade now goes on final exam.

Interesting! That's a more realistic way of doing it although really if you missed one set of exams then you should have been given the opportunity to re sit them. That means the rest of your cohort were unfairly advantaged as you only had one shot whereas they had two.

A quick google suggests that A levels currently have one exam at the end point with some courses having a small coursework element.

It's a similar picture across the English speaking education systems and I think it's outdated. That being said, and before someone picks me up on it because I said this on another thread,I do want there to be a final exam this year because that's what our infrastructure is geared towards. (Selfish from my workload point of view). I think the system needs overhauled though.

In England primary schools teach things like fronted adverbials. I have no idea what that even is and suspect I will manage without ever knowing!

@Mistressiggi

In England primary schools teach things like fronted adverbials. I have no idea what that even is and suspect I will manage without ever knowing!

That I admit that is pointless, are they assessed at GCSE?

If not schools could skip that bit

What changes would you like to see @Lockdownbear ?