Tieribly angry wee fannies fannying about with the tiers

[dancemom]

Things moved quickly so I just started a new one ...

@florafoxtrot sorry to hear that and yes in your situation that's very anxiety inducing! Can recommend yoga and sound baths for helping reduce it (it's very hippy but good at relaxing and reducing stress!)

For me I was hypoxic at many points which is pretty serious (hence I was put in steroids and had a little trip in an ambulance) and I'm still recovering 5 months later. I do completely get for my age, fitness level and health I was extremely unlucky.

For me I see it as an illness I definitely never wish to experience again at the level I did (hence vaccinations!) and would always recommend people get vaccinated due to the pot luck nature. But I also know it doesn't cause serious illness in the very large majority of children and for vaccinated adults.

Bit like I'm not going to lick a piece of raw chicken I'm not going to sit myself next to someone coughing and hug them!

Thanks @Scottishskifun. On it with the yoga and really enjoy it a lot but we don’t have a bath unfortunately. We do what we can and are careful at the same time. Hopefully all be a distant memory soon.

@florafoxtrot

Thanks *@Scottishskifun*. On it with the yoga and really enjoy it a lot but we don’t have a bath unfortunately. We do what we can and are careful at the same time. Hopefully all be a distant memory soon.

Ah no so the sound bath is a yoga practice it's like tibetan bowls and then they place them on your body with them making a noise. It's very hippy but something to do with the pitch of them and the vibrations really relaxes the muscles (and mind).

I used it with long covid to help my muscles relax and it would also calm me loads

Oh jings! That’s new one on me. Thanks for the recommendation though, I’ll have a google.

@WouldBeGood

It’s not likely to be a serious illness or a death sentence.

Tell that to the thousands with long covid. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Still a tiny percentage @forfucksakenett. And post viral effects not new.

Time to stop the fear

Unpleasant for those affected, but no reason for ongoing restrictions

I understand what you say at a societal level @WouldBeGood but find it quite difficult to swallow when I think of it on a more individual level. Especially when there are people like Scottish on the thread who is still struggling so far down the line. It can come over as quite dogmatic and thoughtless if I'm honest.

Side note: did anyone read Devi Sridhar's Guardian article today? I was reading it while imagining most of you tearing your hair out at it, even though she's saying what most of you want to hear now.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/10/covid-vaccines-britain-scientific-solution-jabs

Thankfully vaccination seems to reduce liklihood of long covid significantly.

Some parts do mirror post viral fatigue unfortunately other symptoms do not. In some ways I do wish it did mirror it exactly as there are well known therapies which can help. Sadly though some aspects are completely new and not pleasant and majority of research indicates a immune system disorder.

I also wouldn't say that 87,000 + people is a tiny percentage in Scotland out of 356,000 total positive cases it's actually 25% which is higher than UK whole rate (previous health is a risk factor but so is pre existing asthma of any level which is my particular case).

I don't believe in being fearful but it's a illness which has potential to be nasty just like I don't think people want ecoli I don't think people want covid! It should be about managing your own personal risk at this point though as its not going anywhere.

Not tearing my hair out at all @IncludeWomenInThePrequel, I agree with much of what she says in that article. I do think that she was largely to blame for sending us down the wrong path with the 'COVID elimination' strategy that only served to leave us more vulnerable to delta in the previous wave because we had lower immunity, but I'm very glad to see her now accepting that merely surviving while heavily restricted isn't living and that we need to learn to accept risk and get back to normal life.

I also agree with her, and indeed the head of the Oxford Vaccine Group who has said that herd immunity to COVID is not possible and new variants are inevitable, that the focus now should be vaccinating the rest of the world. It does seem perverse that we agonise over whether to use up doses on people who don't need them (children) and giving booster doses to people with no evidence that they will give significant extra protection, while much of the world's vulnerable are completely unvaccinated.

Governments need to make decisions for society as a whole though @IncludeWomenInThePrequel.

And of course I’m pleased Devi is now moving towards agreeing with me 😉

@IncludeWomenInThePrequel she seems to have selective memory in the article stating zero covid was summer 2020......

The push for zero covid of which she was a key player in was well into this year as well. It wasn't until late May that it was dropped and NS was asked about it many times. So I find it a bit rich an article basically saying what other scientists were stating long before her and her tact changed. It just seems to be a PR exercise!

I had a very quick look at the excess deaths stats last night. Last week there were over 160 and yet only 40ish had covid mentioned.

I have no problem with people continuing to wear masks if they want, I don't mind if they keep some of the perspex screening installed at tills either, but we need to return to normality for the vast proportion of the population.

There is no proportionality with the ongoing restrictions.

I think I read somewhere that the perspex screening actually increases risk rather than reducing it, because it prevents proper air flow, and allows virus particles (which move freely through most face coverings) to build up in smallish spaces. A lot of the mitigations in place were just done at the start as an emergency measure because they sounded sensible at the time, but there actually haven't been many good quality trials of these NPIs to check that they actually do what's advertised.

Devi does seem to be moving more towards the main stream now (and yes, zero COVID was 'the plan' much more recently than last summer and well after most scientists concluded it wasn't feasible). I wonder if she's trying to distance herself from the iSAGE lot who have been proved comprehensively wrong on England's freedom day, and Deepti, who has gone a bit off the deep end frankly, as they are often put in the same bracket. A lot of scientist's reputations will be pretty bruised when the dust settles on all this. Whatever the case, it's good to see someone so influential in the SG moving to a more measured, consensus position.

That makes sense, so screens another of the things that weren't thought through or tested properly but make people think they are doing good.

Well, she has been writing a book, you know... You can't expect her to be first to call everything . I agree that what she says about getting the vaccine to other parts of the world is so important to ensure everyone has its protection (and incidentally will also benefit us in terms of renewed trade, international travel, reduced risk of variants and so on). Which is why it is odd we seem so wedded to the idea of boosters and vaccinations of children. In a world with infinite vaccine the latter would be a difficult one to call, but we're definitely not in that world, so I'm not sure how it's being portrayed as the ethical, selfless decision to vaccinate 12 year olds, when 70 year olds in other countries with rampant (or even not rampant) covid haven't had a sniff of the vaccine.

I think I read somewhere that the perspex screening actually increases risk rather than reducing it, because it prevents proper air flow

Yes! I saw this, but I can't remember if we discussed it on these threads or not. It makes sense, purely from a particle flow point of view... A flow of air isn't just going to be stopped by a bit of perspex - the air will go round the perspex and potentially channel any tiny droplets back to anyone on the other side, depending on how well it's been designed and placed! And I'm not convinced all shops had trained fluid dynamicists bunging up their perspex. I'm amused by cafes that put perspex down the middle of a big table to split it into 2 smaller groups. But 2 people sitting either side of it could turn their heads and have a snog... (one cafe had even cut a big hole in their perspex to accommodate a pot plant ) It does just seem to be box ticking - and some of it may have done some good, and some of it not, or actually worsened the situation, but quite why it is still seen as beneficial and cautious to keep these measures now is beyond me!

[quote Scottishskifun]@IncludeWomenInThePrequel she seems to have selective memory in the article stating zero covid was summer 2020......

The push for zero covid of which she was a key player in was well into this year as well. It wasn't until late May that it was dropped and NS was asked about it many times. So I find it a bit rich an article basically saying what other scientists were stating long before her and her tact changed. It just seems to be a PR exercise![/quote]

To be fair to Devi (a position I'm not inclined to take) the best scientists should be willing to change their position based on changing evidence.

Lots of sensible scientists were disagreeing with her throughout. She just blocks anyone who challenges her.

She’s discredited as well for scaremongering, particularly over the AZ vaccine.

She did allow herself to become overly zealous and a bit political about the whole thing, but seems to be rowing back from that now which I guess we should give her some credit for. I do wonder if a lot of the more vocal 'twitter scientists' will look at this period and feel a bit embarrassed at the way they behaved.

@Haudyourwheesht completely agree should change based on evidence I just find her article a bit selective recollection on the dates that she was pushing on stuff.....
The skeptic in me thinks maybe book sales aren't going as well so she needs some agree with the public articles..... 😂

I'm not sure how it's being portrayed as the ethical, selfless decision to vaccinate 12 year olds, when 70 year olds in other countries with rampant (or even not rampant) covid haven't had a sniff of the vaccine

This has always been my view. Then it was challenged when my younger teens were offered the vaccine because of a vulnerable family member.

When I told ds15 that he could have the vaccine if he wanted to he looked like a weight had been lifted off his shoulders. I hadn't realised how worried he was about being back in school, potentially catching covid himself and potentially infecting his grandad.

I'm struggling right now, we're hearing all this supposedly good news about progress but it's all still such a big mess with all these different effects on different people. I feel bad I hadn't realised how worried ds was. My youngest is too young for the jag and now he's worried that he'll be the only one not 'safe', to use his choice of words.

It’s just appalling that as a society we’ve made our children think like that @Rae36. It makes me really sad and angry.

Prof Andrew Pollard of Oxford vaccine group was on bbc Hard Talk last week
He was saying the political decisions our leaders are taking are unethical and risk putting the world (us included) at risk of new variants.
He agrees with WHO, who are furious at the unethical practices of western Govs vaccinating children who are really at no real risk, or giving of Covid, or 3rd booster doses ahead of freeing up those vaccines for healthcare workers and vulnerable people in developing countries
It's nigh on impossible to keep new variants out (delta in loads of countries now) so he was talk about need to try to prevent them in 1st place by getting as much of world vaccinated as possible

Interesting @latissimusdorsi.Morally, I’ve thought that for ages. It’s pretty sickening to be wittering about jagging youngsters when truly vulnerable people in poor countries are just left to die.