Thread 7 - No pitch forks or Pom Poms - Scottish political shenanigans

[TheShadowyFeminist]

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*Tory run England.

Again, what's needed is a focus on security for women. The disgusting, evil individual mentioned above should never have been allowed anywhere near another human.

The SG proposed legislation would result in men in women’s jail.

No idea what you were trying to say starry, but this isn't about single incidents, male prisoners have been admitted to women's prisons in Scotland for quite a few years already. I believe it has even skewed the MI on violent incidents committed by women who actually were men when the crimes were committed. It's also about there having been no consideration of the impact of this on the women prisoners (many of whom have had abusive childhoods) who end up housed with intact men who lets face it are in it for what they see easier treatment.

It's been going on for years:

archive.news.stv.tv/politics/1439716-concerns-over-housing-trans-inmates-in-women-s-prisons.html

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-trans-law-is-threat-to-women-says-ex-head-of-prison-snv7zwpmd

[quote SempreSuiGeneris]When you can't tell the difference between a book corner in a gym and a Carnegie endowment library

Evening Times also carrying a pretty damning article on behalf of the Scottish Music Industry. Cites lack of support and unrealistic approach and lack of consultation on reopening from SG.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19259547.biffy-clyro-deacon-blue-kt-tunstall-warn-industry-collapse/?ref=twtrec[/quote]
Have you visited The Bridge? I've actually worked in both areas and taken classes to it - it's a lovely space with lots going on. If they replicate this in Maryhill, I don't see it as a bad change as it works so well for encouraging youths to use the library as it's within an multi functional.building with a theatre ( Platform) and I believe The Bridge also has a gym in it. Always sad when old buildings can no longer be used but hopefully it will have another life as something else.

I do think that Scotland needs more community centres with more going on in them / vouchers for young people to use. In Europe, council houses have swimming pools, tennis courts etc in the middle of many if the developments. It would really transform the health of so many.

@RedactedTaeFeck

No idea what you were trying to say starry, but this isn't about single incidents, male prisoners have been admitted to women's prisons in Scotland for quite a few years already. I believe it has even skewed the MI on violent incidents committed by women who actually were men when the crimes were committed. It's also about there having been no consideration of the impact of this on the women prisoners (many of whom have had abusive childhoods) who end up housed with intact men who lets face it are in it for what they see easier treatment.

You said that a Tory Government would stop this. That isn't true.

@StarryEyeSurprise that’s the thing. The Scottish Tory manifesto is to stop it. The parties have been analysed on their policies on this. Have a read.

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-government-accused-putting-women-scottish-prisons-risk-68670

[quote WouldBeGood]@StarryEyeSurprise that’s the thing. The Scottish Tory manifesto is to stop it. The parties have been analysed on their policies on this. Have a read.[/quote]
They said they'd fight to reverse the WASPI pension changes yet did nothing after said election.

They also said they'd protect the fishing industry in Scotland yet put in place regulations and processes which caused huge problems and lost companies millions.

Prominent Tories signed a letter saying they would resign if NI were given a special deal that was better than Scotland was allowed. Despiye this coming to pass, the resignations turned into a substantial ,and lifelong, taxpayer paid income.

I could be here all night.

I don't have any reason to believe that the Scottish Tories will do what they have written in their manifesto.

@StarryEyeSurprise the point is that the SNP has pledged to allow men into women’s jails. The Tories say they won’t.

The analysis is of election pledges, so that can one can see who to vote for on the basis of their attitudes to women and sex and gender. So that a message can be sent.

[quote WouldBeGood]@StarryEyeSurprise the point is that the SNP has pledged to allow men into women’s jails. The Tories say they won’t.

The analysis is of election pledges, so that can one can see who to vote for on the basis of their attitudes to women and sex and gender. So that a message can be sent.[/quote]
If you think that voting Tory 'sends a message' and will have an impact on women's safety, go for it.

I'm presuming a Tory majority would put an end to men in women's prisons for a start.

you mean by not bringing in self-id RedactedTaeFeck? i take your point, in a sense - I think someone high up in the UK prison service has warned that self-id could be a risk in terms of chancers claiming to identify as women to get into women's prisons?

But I'm not sure if it would 'end' it - depends what you mean. There are some transgender women in womens' prisons just now I believe - so I'm not sure how the Tories doing nothing would alter that. The gra 2004 would still apply wouldn't it?

The point I was making about the Tories though is that that wasn't actually why they voted against the bill - it's because they don't agree with having 50 50 female representation on public bodies anyway, so it's a bit funny to be getting kudos from a feminist organisation for it.

OhBuggerandArse The figures I'd had were that despite women making up 51.5% of Scotland‘s population, in January 2018, only 45% of public board members, and 25% of chairs were women. (The bill came in in 2019). I hadn't heard about that FOI but I'll look into that, thanks.

On The Tories 'disengaging' - have they though? I would have thought they would have wanted to re-assure women worried about self-id in their manifesto since it's such a big issue for many just now? So, to me, voting for them on that basis seems a bit of a gamble when they've not stated exactly where they stand on this.

I could be here all night.

Same

scottishlabour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/50-FAILURES.pdf

the point is that the SNP has pledged to allow men into women’s jails. The Tories say they won’t.

Where in the Tory manifesto have they pledged this WouldBeGood?

they've copped out by not mentioning the GRA at all

so the Gra 2014 would still apply wouldn't it? or are they proposing a separate law? I've not seen or heard anything about that?

Again, it’s just absolutely pointless trying to discuss things 🤷🏻‍♀️

(GRA 2004 I meant, sorry)

why pointless? all you have to do is point me to the bit of the Tory manifesto that says they are going to stop men from going to women's prisons?

@happygolurkey

I'm presuming a Tory majority would put an end to men in women's prisons for a start.

you mean by not bringing in self-id RedactedTaeFeck? i take your point, in a sense - I think someone high up in the UK prison service has warned that self-id could be a risk in terms of chancers claiming to identify as women to get into women's prisons?

But I'm not sure if it would 'end' it - depends what you mean. There are some transgender women in womens' prisons just now I believe - so I'm not sure how the Tories doing nothing would alter that. The gra 2004 would still apply wouldn't it?

The point I was making about the Tories though is that that wasn't actually why they voted against the bill - it's because they don't agree with having 50 50 female representation on public bodies anyway, so it's a bit funny to be getting kudos from a feminist organisation for it.

OhBuggerandArse The figures I'd had were that despite women making up 51.5% of Scotland‘s population, in January 2018, only 45% of public board members, and 25% of chairs were women. (The bill came in in 2019). I hadn't heard about that FOI but I'll look into that, thanks.

On The Tories 'disengaging' - have they though? I would have thought they would have wanted to re-assure women worried about self-id in their manifesto since it's such a big issue for many just now? So, to me, voting for them on that basis seems a bit of a gamble when they've not stated exactly where they stand on this.

That's terrible re women on boards @lurkey. Yet feminist groups don't know this? Yikes.

@happygolurkey

why pointless? all you have to do is point me to the bit of the Tory manifesto that says they are going to stop men from going to women's prisons?

Ah, so it's not even in there.

you mean by not bringing in self-id RedactedTaeFeck? i take your point, in a sense - I think someone high up in the UK prison service has warned that self-id could be a risk in terms of chancers claiming to identify as women to get into women's prisons?

But I'm not sure if it would 'end' it - depends what you mean. There are some transgender women in womens' prisons just now I believe - so I'm not sure how the Tories doing nothing would alter that. The gra 2004 would still apply wouldn't it?

There are already people in Scotland's women's prisons who are self proclaimed transgender. I would expect that self ID male prisoners would be returned to the appropriate facility. I have no issue with genuine transgender people who have achieved the appropriate certification being in the prison appropriate to their gender. I do have an issue with intact male prisoners getting access to female facilities just because they want to.

Because @StarryEyeSurprise and @happygolurkey you just disagree with anything that’s not the SNP line. Libraries, women, whatever. It’s just pointless trying to have a discussion.

You win 🤷🏻‍♀️

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/opaque-and-overdue-scottish-prison-service-trans-prisoner-policy-review

Taken from above:

Drawing on interviews with 13 transgender prisoners, eleven of whom are described as transitioning from male to female, with one having undertaken surgery, the paper highlights, '...the desire of transgender people in custody to be treated in the same manner of people of the same gender as them’ noting that this, ‘resulted in a number of participants wanting to be searched more, to share a cell and shower at the same time as other people in custody'.

Whether female prisoners felt comfortable sharing cells or showering at the same time as biological males, most of whom retained their male genitalia, is not discussed. Staff discomfort at conducting body searches on people of the opposite sex, resulting in less frequent searches, is however noted. The journal editorial states that the paper focuses, 'on the experience of people directly affected and shows the diversity of perspectives' but fails to note that women are not considered.

@WouldBeGood

Because *@StarryEyeSurprise and @happygolurkey* you just disagree with anything that’s not the SNP line. Libraries, women, whatever. It’s just pointless trying to have a discussion.

You win 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don't think libraries are SNP controlled... and I did say, go ahead and vote Tory if you think it helps women's rights. Each to their own.

Aaaargh!! It’s Glasgow council, SNP controlled

It doesn't say a thing in the Scottish Tory manifesto about pledging to stop transgender inmates In Women's prison that I can see?

Trans women are in female prisons in England so why would their Scottish regional branch break rank?

What a load of old shit. Vote Tory all you like but don't kid on it's for the good of women.