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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Thread 7 - No pitch forks or Pom Poms - Scottish political shenanigans

999 replies

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/04/2021 15:46

New 🧵

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10
TheShadowyFeminist · 12/04/2021 17:35

If, as a "normal" member of the public, I was asked if I wanted to be in a CA on gender, I'd probably decline, as I wouldn't think it was relevant to me, or that I wouldn't understand the concepts discussed. So I'd imagine that CA would comprise mainly people who already knew something about the area and had relatively set opinions and views.

I think this is a good point - when the NACWG published their recommendations which included the 'intersectional gender architecture' & 'gender beacons' what you describe is exactly what this incoherent nonsense does - puts people off getting involved, either because the terminology says very little about what it actually means or what it's intent is, it it's deliberately elitist or overly academic meaning it doesn't translate into everyday life. There is a very real issue with wilful obfuscation of key terms, issues & language being used. If GRA reform I'd explained in basic terms that makes clear exactly what it means, it sounds so insane that people genuinely think you're talking total nonsense. That in itself is a huge problem & the constant shifting of terminology being used makes it even more difficult to keep up.

I am a normal member of the public and I have very little grasp of it, and, as a result, very little interest in it. I wouldn't consider myself a stakeholder, as I don't consider myself to have a "gender"- or rather, if I do, and it's just my sex, it's just a part of me that I can't change and have no need or desire to change, but it's not something that defines who I am. Parts of being a woman do of course (motherhood, pay, family life, bodily functions and hormones, health services and so on) but I don't see my "gender" (or sex) in itself as that important to me.

And again, same thing. Scotgov have done everything possible to avoid this becoming a widely known issue. It should be couched in terms that people can fully understand how it's relevant to them (not just those who claim a trans ID) and the ways in which that is of a material interest. But, the policing of language (especially now with the HCB) has created further difficulty in making that possible. Particularly when people are taking offence at any reference to male/males when you try and discuss the conflicting arguments.

You may genuinely not see the point or be interested in this issue, which is fair enough. But I think the lack of clarity on this is deliberate & makes it that bit more difficult for a lot of people to understand what it's about and what it means for the population as a whole. It's a very shady way to address legislation IMO.

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TheShadowyFeminist · 12/04/2021 17:47

Interesting statement by Salmond in response to the 'stramash' on twitter over the Alba Women's Conference.

Archive link to the herald article

Women reported to their employers, threatened with violence & subjected to online abuse, including (allegedly) by MPs/MSPs. Not sure who they are as I might have missed that.

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WouldBeGood · 12/04/2021 17:49

It reads as though he’s going out to give them a kicking 😃

ResilienceWanker · 12/04/2021 18:01

@forfucksakenett

No I think you speak very articulately about it and would be exactly the kind of view that would benefit a citizens assembly.
Thanks! I'll bear that in mind if I'm ever asked Grin Now you just need to get the other however-many people who think the same as me on board too!
TheShadowyFeminist · 12/04/2021 18:02

It really galls that Salmond is the one saying it but it's been needing to be said for such a long time - recognition of the absolute bin fire of abuse, harassment, intimidation & threats women have been subjected to, including MSPs/MPs being targeted. This is what really makes me question sturgeon & why she's pretending that this isn't happening or is nothing to do with her. The point to do/say something was when it started. The absolute last point to do/say something would have been at when Joanna Cherry had to flee her home on getting a serious threat of sexual violence from an SNP member, known to Sturgeon's v close allies. It's gotten way out of hand and it's still shocking that it continues even now.

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ResilienceWanker · 12/04/2021 18:18

@TheShadowyFeminist

If, as a "normal" member of the public, I was asked if I wanted to be in a CA on gender, I'd probably decline, as I wouldn't think it was relevant to me, or that I wouldn't understand the concepts discussed. So I'd imagine that CA would comprise mainly people who already knew something about the area and had relatively set opinions and views.

I think this is a good point - when the NACWG published their recommendations which included the 'intersectional gender architecture' & 'gender beacons' what you describe is exactly what this incoherent nonsense does - puts people off getting involved, either because the terminology says very little about what it actually means or what it's intent is, it it's deliberately elitist or overly academic meaning it doesn't translate into everyday life. There is a very real issue with wilful obfuscation of key terms, issues & language being used. If GRA reform I'd explained in basic terms that makes clear exactly what it means, it sounds so insane that people genuinely think you're talking total nonsense. That in itself is a huge problem & the constant shifting of terminology being used makes it even more difficult to keep up.

I am a normal member of the public and I have very little grasp of it, and, as a result, very little interest in it. I wouldn't consider myself a stakeholder, as I don't consider myself to have a "gender"- or rather, if I do, and it's just my sex, it's just a part of me that I can't change and have no need or desire to change, but it's not something that defines who I am. Parts of being a woman do of course (motherhood, pay, family life, bodily functions and hormones, health services and so on) but I don't see my "gender" (or sex) in itself as that important to me.

And again, same thing. Scotgov have done everything possible to avoid this becoming a widely known issue. It should be couched in terms that people can fully understand how it's relevant to them (not just those who claim a trans ID) and the ways in which that is of a material interest. But, the policing of language (especially now with the HCB) has created further difficulty in making that possible. Particularly when people are taking offence at any reference to male/males when you try and discuss the conflicting arguments.

You may genuinely not see the point or be interested in this issue, which is fair enough. But I think the lack of clarity on this is deliberate & makes it that bit more difficult for a lot of people to understand what it's about and what it means for the population as a whole. It's a very shady way to address legislation IMO.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. The discussion around it has become so academic, yet also couched in a whole morass of things it's socially unacceptable (or possibly illegal) to say, it's easiest to just ignore it, and revert to "do unto others as you would be done by"! I know enough about the debate (and general social niceties) not to deliberately contradict someone who claims a particular identity - but not enough to know what to say when a child asks me if "that person is a man or a woman" Blush. It's all just a bit sensitive and nuanced for me to feel comfortable delving into.

Intersectional gender architecture is honestly just three random words to me - and I'm a great lover of the Three Letter Acronym and technical language in my own field. I don't expect anyone else to understand it and incorporate it into their own world view, though.

Tomorrowisanewday · 12/04/2021 18:24

ResilienceWanker "I'm a great lover of the Three Letter Acronym and technical language in my own field" - me too, but all of the gender debate makes me feel like a child sitting at the grown-ups table

SempreSuiGeneris · 12/04/2021 18:38

I remember when androgyny was the thing. Simpler times.

TheShadowyFeminist · 12/04/2021 18:39

@Tomorrowisanewday

ResilienceWanker "I'm a great lover of the Three Letter Acronym and technical language in my own field" - me too, but all of the gender debate makes me feel like a child sitting at the grown-ups table
And that's deliberate.

I see repeated assertions that GRA reform is 'just admin' for those who want a GRC. Or it doesn't conflict women's rights in any way whatsoever. Neither of those claims are true, but you'll not get an actual clear explanation to back up those arguments. And it is like being treated like a child, who should be happy to be patronised that 'they' know best.

It seriously does my box in!

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StatisticallyChallenged · 12/04/2021 18:48

There is a whole language which is designed to obfuscate and confuse around gender which I think suits the groups lobbying for change as it is very opaque.

annabelindajane · 13/04/2021 12:11

The ShadowyFeminist -so very well put , far more erudite than me saying my friends just roll their eyes and move onto more fun topics but I think this what I was getting at .

Obfuscation is the name of the game and I know one of the concerns behind all this is the potential for lowering the age of consent .

The trans community are a tiny percentage of the population but seem to have Scotgov in its grip. I certainly wouldn’t have a clue in even beginning a discussion on them as agree with either male or female and apart from those with physiological issues then how you identify is is personal and not necessarily to be shared with all and sundry least of all on social media . It used to be Mods and Rockers -

Wings yesterday ( if you could bear to look at it and it was gruesome ) had a very trans type Green Party members tweets that most definitely should not be in public domain.

If Scotgov had drilled down into Greensill in so much detail it might have saved them the £523 million a year they’d put up as a guarantee. 😂

StatisticallyChallenged · 13/04/2021 12:32

That latest WIngs content...Twitter really is a sewer isn't it

annabelindajane · 13/04/2021 13:17

Regards the tweets highlighted on Twitter - this 20 years ago would have probably had the police at the door so now we just say it’s gruesome and move on but today it’s acceptable.

This I think is how it is with the ILGA and some of the more questionable groups that Scotgov fund and their affiliated groups . Just drips away and more and more becomes mainstream without us realising it’s happened .

TheShadowyFeminist · 13/04/2021 18:40

Anyone watching the leaders debate tonight? I honestly don't know if I can be bothered.

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GrandPrismatic · 13/04/2021 20:05

Oh thanks for the heads up...I didn’t know it was on. Just switched on to see Patrick Harvie before it cut to break....was tempted to switch off immediately!

titsintiers · 13/04/2021 20:27

Sarwar coming across best.

TheShadowyFeminist · 13/04/2021 21:01

Technology has decided for me - I couldn't get past the opening 1 min speeches as my internet connection is playing up & the sound cut out or it just skipped bits (I was late logging on).

I don't feel I've missed anything 🤷🏻‍♀️

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annabelindajane · 14/04/2021 07:44

You missed nothing . Nothing to inspire. Tedious without questions from an audience . Didn’t watch 3 rd round . Husband fell asleep 😴

StarryEyeSurprise · 14/04/2021 08:02

Can a lawyer type tell me - is it legal for Ruth Davidson to be fronting the Conservative election e- mails even though no one can vote for her?

Tomorrowisanewday · 14/04/2021 08:03

You didn't miss anything. Patrick Harvie and Nicola Sturgeon had so obviously rehearsed his answers to her questions.

Lots of shouting - why can't they have a reasoned debate?

forfucksakenett · 14/04/2021 08:28

@StarryEyeSurprise

Can a lawyer type tell me - is it legal for Ruth Davidson to be fronting the Conservative election e- mails even though no one can vote for her?
I can't get over this. It's unreal. Imagine voting for this shower 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's probably not illegal but it's absolutely humiliating.

If he wasn't so hateful and bigoted I think I'd actually feel sorry for him. There's clearly not an ounce of talent or capability in the Scottish Tories.

forfucksakenett · 14/04/2021 08:31

Sarwar does give me a bit of hope for Scottish Labour though. I think he's really grown up.

WaxOnFeckOff · 14/04/2021 08:38

😂😂😂 Yes because the SNP are sooo full of talent and capability? How anyone with an ounce of morals, and especially a woman, can vote for that shower is beyond the pale.

forfucksakenett · 14/04/2021 08:44

Lol

At least NS can front her own campaign.

And yes, if it came down to basic comparison of talent I think the Scot Tories would be the bottom of the list with the exception of Adam Tomkins who has resigned anyway I believe.

It's actually hilarious that folk are positing the Tories as a party for women 🙈

forfucksakenett · 14/04/2021 08:44

Still howling that you're suggesting it would be more moral to vote Tory. Belter. Grin