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Ding Ding Ding! Round 5 Salmond and Sturgeon

976 replies

Blurberoo · 20/03/2021 09:46

New thread...

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HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 25/03/2021 19:10

@reprehensibleme

No SNP supporters I've mentioned trans issues to had any idea. Tbh only one had any idea on the Hate Crime Bill. No superiority here at all, just worry tbh.
Gosh that’s convenient What was the sample size out of interest ?
ATieLikeRichardGere · 25/03/2021 19:14

Out of interest, does anyone have a good explanation for why the trans issues have become so prominent and so central to everything both within the SNP and also other parties?

reprehensibleme · 25/03/2021 19:14

But the SNP are the ones steamrolling ahead with legislation that leaves women at the bottom of the heap.

Heels, tbh, some SNP supporters are coming across as superior on this thread and others. I don't move in the educated circles you obviously do. I have not commented on FM's appearance (if I did it would be to say she always looks entirely appropriate and that's as much as I care about). I am a 'Scottish person' and I don't like what the SNP are doing to my country.

WouldBeGood · 25/03/2021 19:15

@ATieLikeRichardGere

Out of interest, does anyone have a good explanation for why the trans issues have become so prominent and so central to everything both within the SNP and also other parties?
I think it’s the liberal left and the like being manipulated by men with an agenda to erase women and their rights.
reprehensibleme · 25/03/2021 19:17

Heels, family and friends, about 8 or 9 people over the last week. Not the entire population so obviously my observations are worth nowt.

ATieLikeRichardGere · 25/03/2021 19:22

I guess the cynic in me says that the focus on an issue such as trans rights is kind of an easy “win” (if you subscribe obviously) in comparison to say, poverty, which is a wicked problem that’s tough to solve.

SempreSuiGeneris · 25/03/2021 19:27

Educated to post graduate level is a very small subset of the Scottish population.

forfucksakenett · 25/03/2021 19:28

Although @WouldBeGood has given us a good plot to a Hollywood film there the reality is that trans rights issues have been building over the course of the last five years or soon a far more organic and less manipulative way. Longer really, but far more prominent from then.

In the last five years we have seen an increase in trans role models (actors, activists artist etc) which has been really important in building the confidence of trans youth. Increasingly young people are more free to admit they are gay, non binary/ trans etc. Their world accepts all these differences almost without question now. Where I work we have several trans kids - some the other kids know about and some they don't alongside boys who freely wear make up. The kids barely care.

Consequently, and understandably, there has been a push from this tiny minority for more recognition and rights. No great male conspiracy, just a sorry state of affairs where trans folk are trying to protect themselves and so are women. On both sides there's a tiny group of arseholes making everything difficult.

forfucksakenett · 25/03/2021 19:29

@SempreSuiGeneris

Educated to post graduate level is a very small subset of the Scottish population.
Is it? I must love in very elite circles then. 💁🏻‍♀️
WouldBeGood · 25/03/2021 19:30

@SempreSuiGeneris

Educated to post graduate level is a very small subset of the Scottish population.
That’s true
forfucksakenett · 25/03/2021 19:30

@ATieLikeRichardGere I don't think it's an easy win at all! It's a highly contentious issue. No easy solve either.

Selkiesarereal · 25/03/2021 19:31

Actually one of m priorities is education and I am eagerly awaiting the report on that but apparently it’s not coming out until after the election even though it has been prepared.

I would imagine education would be high on the list of importance to the electorate and dare I say it more so than the trans issue.

For those wondering about the seemingly sudden importance of trans rights please go over to the feminist section as there are a lot of really interesting posts.

Sorry for the derail there but this stuff is also important to me.

WouldBeGood · 25/03/2021 19:31

@ATieLikeRichardGere

I guess the cynic in me says that the focus on an issue such as trans rights is kind of an easy “win” (if you subscribe obviously) in comparison to say, poverty, which is a wicked problem that’s tough to solve.
I think this is true.

But normal people aren’t concerned by this wokery and are puzzled by it. People are concerned about if they can pay their bills, feed their children, see their families, access medical care.

WouldBeGood · 25/03/2021 19:33

@Selkiesarereal

Actually one of m priorities is education and I am eagerly awaiting the report on that but apparently it’s not coming out until after the election even though it has been prepared.

I would imagine education would be high on the list of importance to the electorate and dare I say it more so than the trans issue.

For those wondering about the seemingly sudden importance of trans rights please go over to the feminist section as there are a lot of really interesting posts.

Sorry for the derail there but this stuff is also important to me.

Me too @Selkiesarereal

I’d love to judge Ms Sturgeon on her educational record, as she asked us to, but the OECD report is being suppressed until after the election.

OhBuggerandArse · 25/03/2021 19:34

I would say that with both the GRA and the HCB they were looking for an easy win that would look good in the papers and didn't cost them any actual money. They were getting towards the end of the term, needed to show some achievements, but didn't have enough spare cash to do more things that would be genuinely socially progressive. A bit like companies trying to deal with their failure to achieve an equal workplace by making everyone go on unconscious bias training - costs peanuts in comparison to genuinely addressing the pay gap or endemic racism. Obviously they weren't anticipating the push back.

The Salmond case is possibly similar - a nice big tick in the #MeToo box to write in the end-of-term report. Again, they didn't foresee the fall-out.

riverrunning · 25/03/2021 19:34

Chucking out a hate crime bill and not tackling misogyny was absolutely the low hanging fruit the snp specialise in. A better hate crime bill protecting women and trans rights and reaching a good compromise most reasonable people would accept - we'd have needed Joanna Cherry for that and she's been utterly sidelined.

reprehensibleme · 25/03/2021 19:35

And at the moment the rights of the 'tiny minority' of trans people (who, of course, have exactly the same rights as everyone) seem to be superseding the rights of 51% of the population in Scotland.

forfucksakenett · 25/03/2021 19:38

@riverrunning

Chucking out a hate crime bill and not tackling misogyny was absolutely the low hanging fruit the snp specialise in. A better hate crime bill protecting women and trans rights and reaching a good compromise most reasonable people would accept - we'd have needed Joanna Cherry for that and she's been utterly sidelined.
I actually agree with this. It would have been far better to incorporate the two. It's not a closed book though. There is the mechanism to add sex.

I then find myself swithering and thinking would a more comprehensive misogyny Bill be better? Probably but I wish they had been done at the same time to avoid all this pish.

OhBuggerandArse · 25/03/2021 19:39

Sorry, @ATieLikeRichardGere, I hadn't refreshed the page and missed that you'd said the same thing. So yes, my post there is basically to agree with you.

WouldBeGood · 25/03/2021 19:40

There’s plenty existing legislation/common law as it stands.

forfucksakenett · 25/03/2021 19:44

@WouldBeGood

There’s plenty existing legislation/common law as it stands.
All suitable to protect everyone's rights would you say @WouldBeGood ? I remember you saying you were a lawyer so your input would be interesting here. I don't know because IANAL but I had assumed that the existing legislation wasn't comprehensive enough and needed updated / futureproofed.
HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 25/03/2021 19:45

You’re all very partisan,can you genuinely not see why snp get seats and FM has a 55% good approval rating?
Or are you stuck wondering why the loyal subjects vote snp
Politics is the art of connecting making people feel heard,and that what matters to them matters to the politicians
Now I know we could all respectively write discourse about authenticity and prof curtice is familiar with this
But politics isn’t essays,it’s not wholly ideological purity and process . It is for most people the daily grind
Will my kids be ok
Health
Education
Opportunity
Do I feel heard

WouldBeGood · 25/03/2021 19:48

Yes, @forfucksakenett in my view the current law covers it. A common law system works well in covering most things. Better than statutory offences. And sentence can reflect the circumstances of each offence. Less law is better law.

reprehensibleme · 25/03/2021 19:49

Education. Nope. Do I feel heard. Nope. Grin

forfucksakenett · 25/03/2021 19:50

@WouldBeGood that does make sense to me to be fair. Less is usually more.

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