Ding Ding Ding! Round 5 Salmond and Sturgeon

[Blurberoo]

New thread...

That about sums it up @HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

If there was genuine disagreement on here with good faith discussion, you'd have a point. That's not what's going on and it's pretty clear to most what's happening here.

Sadly yes @SetPhasersTaeMalkie. Pretty much on all the threads. It's nice to see you comment though. Don't let people put you off.

It's a public chat forum for all. If people want exclusivity they should set up a WhatsApp group.

@TheShadowyFeminist there's that superiority again.

This is a good faith discussion. I am genuinely trying to understand what posters are talking about.

No necessarily - they were only really looking at the issues around the handling of the initial complaints. Only two of those were covered in the internal process, the rest came after as part of the criminal process.

And yes, you could argue the identities lending credence is prejudicial. But there are legitimate reasons to question it - and I can't really say more than that but anyone who doesn't have absolute blinkers on knows why.

People were involved in the internal process who almost certainly should have removed themselves from it entirely. It's something which was a running theme - lack of independence in the development and handling of the process. I'd expect better from such highly paid, experienced people.

I keep thinking that: surely they'd know better than that? Its puzzling.

Is disagreement considered to be derailment? Genuine question.⬅️ No

No, not if you can robustly present your own opinion and tolerate divergent opinion , the point of a discursive forum is to encounter other views, expose yourself self to a POV you may not necessarily have experienced.

In case of @TheShadowyFeminist, it’s second time I’ve read her acting like moderator making proclamations, issuing instructions Last time she directed people to leave with an arrow —->

So disagreement is absolutely not derailment.

I posted elsewhere today about my experience with drug dealers and police..maybe my surprisingly background has given me an insight into police investigation and how they react to non police doing evidence gathering..I just assumed it was common knowledge though.

..surprisingly my background..

@SetPhasersTaeMalkie no, disagreement is not derailment. But there is a bit of a theme on Scotsnet and on these threads especially (bearing in mind we're on thread 5!) where people seem to try to take it way off course - tiny comments and asides will be picked at for hours which buries the actual topic and ends up descending in to unpleasantness and insults. It's often not real discourse - tbh it's a bit like watching/listening to politicians, someone asks one question and they answer a different one entirely or shout "what about X". That's politicians of all rosettes btw, the buggers all do it.

It's a real pity as I have no issue discussing with people who genuinely disagree but there have been times where it has a different tone to it. It doesn't feel like discussion, it's more like distraction if that makes sense.

@TheShadowyFeminist

If there was genuine disagreement on here with good faith discussion, you'd have a point. That's not what's going on and it's pretty clear to most what's happening here.

It’s clear to me what’s happening here. Certain people are allowed to “derail” threads, but only if they don’t like Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP. I’ve seen it on numerous threads. People are allowed to have different views, doesn’t mean the thread is being derailed

[quote StatisticallyChallenged]@SetPhasersTaeMalkie no, disagreement is not derailment. But there is a bit of a theme on Scotsnet and on these threads especially (bearing in mind we're on thread 5!) where people seem to try to take it way off course - tiny comments and asides will be picked at for hours which buries the actual topic and ends up descending in to unpleasantness and insults. It's often not real discourse - tbh it's a bit like watching/listening to politicians, someone asks one question and they answer a different one entirely or shout "what about X". That's politicians of all rosettes btw, the buggers all do it.

It's a real pity as I have no issue discussing with people who genuinely disagree but there have been times where it has a different tone to it. It doesn't feel like discussion, it's more like distraction if that makes sense.[/quote]
I endorse this post 😊

Over the last 5 threads there has been a lot of robust discussion and for the most part I have appreciated people taking the time to post their views from many perspectives.

However today it is clear to me that there is an attempt to derail the thread and I object to that as I really want to continue to hear from all sides and have my opinions challenged.

@RaindropsSplashRainbows

I keep thinking that: surely they'd know better than that? Its puzzling.

Well exactly, the whole way through there are people who at least have the appearance of being conflicted. It's odd and something I would expect senior civil servants to be far more alert to.

It's really difficult though - and I'd say this is true in real life as well - when any attempt to look at what are potentially very real difficulties within the SNP and ScotGov is dismissed as just being 'against the SNP'. No party or organisation is immune to these kinds of problems, and we have to be able to look openly and honestly at them.

Introducing baseless rumour and hints to a thread that’s somewhat pointless. Unable to say what the rumour is,it’s endlessly hinted at. To undermine and tarnish an individual without doing so directly. Drip drop of rumours

Choosing to deny a woman her actual surname,and refer to her by her husband name, that’s petty and misogynistic
Esp when he’s not referred to as mr sturgeon

I let gossip pass. Otherwise it is highlighted.

I think most voters would be startled to get a Kirsty Blackman style election flyer!

I would suggest that it is far more misogynistic to not support a colleague who is facing death threats.

All parties and individuals should be subject to scrutiny and healthy cynicism
No one is above reproach

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

All parties and individuals should be subject to scrutiny and healthy cynicism No one is above reproach

I very much agree with this

@RaindropsSplashRainbows

I let gossip pass. Otherwise it is highlighted.

I try to - I'm human, I slip up occasionally though!

I've heard the rumour. It's worse than you could possibly imagine. It might as well be aliens have impregnated the Queen. If even half of it was true it would be common knowledge isn't feeling.

I very much appreciate, however, the poster who I won't name as I don't want to get anyone in trouble or anything taking the time to message me it - thank you.

@Selkiesarereal

I would suggest that it is far more misogynistic to not support a colleague who is facing death threats.

You would think, eh?

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

All parties and individuals should be subject to scrutiny and healthy cynicism No one is above reproach

Agreed.