SNP supporters and the hate crime bill

[Ifyourefeelingsinister]

Scottish government are passing a bill tonight that will give hate crime protection to every protected characteristic - apart from sex. Yes, women apparently don't register as far as hate crimes go.

But cross dressers will be protected so that's fine - don't insult a man in a kilt even in your own home, as you could be arrested. However, every day misogyny - that's fine.

SNP supporters - are you ok with this????

@StarryEyeSurprise

www.engender.org.uk/news/blog/scottish-government-hate-crime-bill-published/

The recommendation ( see detail in link) is that to be effective , sex based hate shouldn't be tabbed onto the end of the Hate Crime Bill.

There should be a separate, all encompasing Bill on misogyny and it should follow the gold standard Domestic Abuse Bill ie it must cover the diverse methods through which women experience harassment.

It is misogynistic to tell women that they cannot talk about themselves as a political class based on their sex, it is misogynistic to tell women that they cannot talk about the disadvantage or harassment they face being due to their sexs, it is misogynistic to tell women that they are the one group in society not allowed to define or understand themselves in their own way. It is misogynistic to verbally abuse or intimidate women or try to get them ostracised or sacked or no-platformed for saying any of this.

Will that be in the bill @StarryEyeSurprise?

Considering that Patrick harvie was hateful towards Johanna Lamont in full view yesterday and wasn’t the least bit afraid to say his hate out loud

He felt emboldened

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Johann Lamont was awesome, so inspiring. Adam Tomkins was also pretty good I thought. Humza listing all the groups that this bill is for, with the notable exception of women, after his patronising dismissal of Johann because she just doesn't understand properly. I'm so angry right now!! If it's too complicated to include women (and I accept it probably is) then for God's sake take that whole section out and do it properly! Don't force through sub-par shite in a rush before the election!

I’m amazed they want to campaign on it - I’ve never seen so many people talk about tactical voting against the SNP 🤷‍♀️

Can someone post a link of the debate so I can watch later?

I just emailed my SNP MSP telling him my vote was no longer with the party and got a response within 5 minutes saying the bill was sound and would not disadvantage women in any way. This is beyond appalling.

www.scottishparliament.tv/meetings

Responses to NS’s tone deaf tweet about Sarah Everard

So then Starry, is this changing your mind on who you are going to vote for?

@aquamarine1

I just emailed my SNP MSP telling him my vote was no longer with the party and got a response within 5 minutes saying the bill was sound and would not disadvantage women in any way. This is beyond appalling.

The arrogance is nauseating

Wonder who will be training the police on what’s a hate crime

They literally could not give women any less consideration could they? @aquamarine1

I don't even know if they hate us, or we just do not feature in their thinking at all.

sub par shite is exactly right.

@aquamarine1

I just emailed my SNP MSP telling him my vote was no longer with the party and got a response within 5 minutes saying the bill was sound and would not disadvantage women in any way. This is beyond appalling.

who was that? I think we need to name and shame. I can't see any alternative for a 2nd vote other than Tory unless you know everyone n your list for the party you favour voted against this.

1st vote is for an individual so if they voted against then that should be considered

Emailed my MSPs. One respondent said he agreed it should be scrapped, another from
Twitter seems to have announced the same....not sure where the other 6 stand on it.

agree wax, labour was 100 percent getting my first vote but now it depends on their stance on this.

[quote UnderHisAye]www.scottishparliament.tv/meetings[/quote]
Thank you

We should be able to see who voted what later and make our choices

@WaxOnFeckOff it was Bill Kidd.

I watched a bit today. I'm not going to lie I'm still no further forward.

I don't see what most of you see and please trust me as I've tried. My gut feeling is that there's something off with it but I can't get a hold of what it is.

It makes sense to me that there should be a separate piece of legislation that is more nuanced to fully deal with the huge variety of ways in which women are abused. Although I also agree with @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us and wonder why not do it properly and include it in here.

After watching today it is clear that there is a huge amount of hyperbole on social media surrounding this bill. It's clear for example that previous posters saying that women standing up for women might be reported by flatmates and prosecuted is clearly not going to happen.

I'm also deeply uncomfortable with the tone of some posters who go on about cross dressing. This is reductive and cruel and minimises the horrible struggles of a tiny minority of people. I don't want female only spaces to disappear, for female sport to not exist, and to not be able to see a female doctor but equally, and having worked with many trans youngsters, I don't want them to be belittled and mocked.

And also, on a thread where for once most are unified in the support of women (which is obviously lovely) could people maybe not be so haranguing of@StarryEyeSurprise who is clearly looking to understand these issues a bit better just like we all are surely? There are posters on here who offer nothing to the debate except repeated sound bites. At least Starry is looking for information and evidence and the links she has posted have been helpful for folk like me who are trying to navigate this.

I freely admit that my knowledge on this is not where it should be and I will continue to research and listen.

I agree very much let's not make @StarryEyeSurprise an apologist for this bill.

Can anyone link the website that tells you how to vote to oust snp? I can't find it.
I know who to vote in my area but invade it helps anyone else here.

what's off surely is that sex isn't protected as a characteristic in a hate crime bill. An associated piece of legislation covering women should be auxiliary and all hang from the overarching hate crime legislation.

If a hate crime bill can't resolve the tensions between women's rights and trans rights, how is that going to work in action? It could have been done with more thought as Joanna Cherry has pointed out.

but I have problems additionally with conversations in your own home being included in this legislation - that is an incursion of free speech so grave it's hard to comprehend.