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Salmond v Sturgeon round 4. What next?

968 replies

Cismyfatarse · 05/03/2021 18:09

New thread.

OP posts:
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8
StarryEyeSurprise · 06/03/2021 15:43

It's ridiculous to pretend that the oecd are in cahoots with the SNP in order to help them win the election. The OECD did a report on the CfE in 2015. it was, overall, very positive.

The main action point related to national assessment ( we now have the benchmarks). I can't invisage an earth shattering change of opinion from the OECD from '15 to now.

WouldBeGood · 06/03/2021 15:43

I’m actually quite surprised the LA is still in post - I would have thought resignation was appropriate after conceding the malicious prosecution in the Rangers case.

But he’s maybe too close to the SG and could cause problems?

StarryEyeSurprise · 06/03/2021 15:44
  • It was
GirlLovesWorld · 06/03/2021 15:45

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

I don't get it. The post about her CV was mostly just factual with a little personal take chucked in.

Is it just not allowed to be critical of NS?

Sure!

But don't just make shit up. That just makes the poster look stupid. Like it or not she is qualified and experienced enough to do her job.

Whether she's doing it well is a whole other matter of course...

kurtrussellsbeard · 06/03/2021 15:46

@jabbathebutt threaten your job? It was me that advised you should delete it!

I have never attacked you personally and I have no idea why you would be trying to work out my previous usernames. I have no idea what your previous username is.

I think I'll be the one reporting to MNHQ.

jabbathebutt · 06/03/2021 15:47

The fact that I saw Nicola Sturgeon quickly correct herself to say 'allegedly' in the committee did make me question her legal skills.

IANAL but I have been through several legal cases as a claimant and I'm a union rep too and I don't know any lawyer or senior union official who would be so careless.

OldRailer · 06/03/2021 15:49

I had assumed that was done knowingly. Because she always appears well prepared when speaking publicly.

Dinnafashyersel · 06/03/2021 15:52

WouldbeGood the previous LA is responsible for the Rangers debacle. Current LA recently did a "full and frank" session with the Parliament to explain what went wrong and what he's done to rectify it.

However all of this gets called into doubt given how compromised he looks re the Salmond case.

WouldBeGood · 06/03/2021 15:53

Oh, thanks @Dinnafashyersel I’ve got mixed up!

StarryEyeSurprise · 06/03/2021 15:55

[quote jabbathebutt]@kurtrussellsbeard you seem to delight in attacking me personally on every scotsnet thread I post on, singling me out particuarly for criticism for not being an SNP supporter amongst other things. Its pretty obvious also what your previous usernames were, where you attacked me repeatedly to the point I had to name change myself. I have contacted MNHQ so that they are at least aware of this behaviour in the event it continues. Debate is fine but constantly singling out one person and trying to out them and threaten their jobs is another.[/quote]
Kurt did you a favour earlier today. She highlighted to you that your post ( containing information you said you had been told not to share) could see you in hot water at work.

You subsequently followed her advice and asked for it to be deleted by MN.

Thats hardly 'attacking you personally'. Infact, the polar opposite.

Dinnafashyersel · 06/03/2021 15:57

Yep OldRailer. The old side wink technique.

StatisticallyChallenged · 06/03/2021 15:57

@OldRailer

I had assumed that was done knowingly. Because she always appears well prepared when speaking publicly.
For someone normally well prepared there was a lot she didn't know and couldn't remember...
kurtrussellsbeard · 06/03/2021 15:57

I have reported the post.

I have never attacked you. Not once.

I'm deeply disturbed now that you're clearly trying to piece together what my previous usernames are? Genuinely disturbing.

Another surreal day on Scotsnet Hmm

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/03/2021 16:15

Having another look through the legal docs now available, I've been trying to work out at what point Evans was asked to give a precognition statement to allow their counsel to assess whether the allegation of bias on the part of the PS had merit with regards to the procedure & the appointment of the IO.

There's a meeting noted which took place on 10th Nov where counsel understood that the PS had agreed to, or at least had been asked to, provide the precognition statement. It wasn't even about disclosing it to the court, but to aid counsel's understanding of her knowledge of any prior contact when the decision was made to appoint the IO. There's a later note about that, on 11 December, where someone "isn't convinced" that providing a precognition from the PS would be helpful or necessary - but mainly in respect of the interpretation of paragraph 10 of the developed harassment procedure on 'no prior contact'. Later (round about the 16/17 December), we see that instead of a signed, truthful, precognition statement from the PS (who was one of those 'in the crosshairs' of Salmond's action) they provided a note of 4 short paragraphs which didn't give counsel the information they needed to be able to respond to various points they were required to.

Counsel were asking for a signed, truthful, precognition statement from the PS on the appointment of the IO with regards to what knowledge the PS had on the extent of the IO's prior contact, to help them address the claims of bias from Salmond's side. Internal discussions with the PS in government were 'unconvinced' this would help. And the whole time the PS knew she'd had prior contact with the complainants before she had finalised her decision report.

One of the emails that turned up in disclosure was one of the complainants emailed responses to the PS in response to her email on the announcement of a review of the sexual harassment policy "an email that we had not previously seen from Ms A to the Permanent Secretary of 3 November 2018 indicating support for the Permanent Secretary’s announcement of the review of harassment policies and expressing views on the content of that review, were also to be disclosed."

And separate to this, the email chain that was redacted, was done so without seeking any advice from Scotgov's own lawyer tasked to redact documents. Someone went 'rogue' on this and made their own in-house lawyer (Sarah Davidson I think?) and external counsel have to apologise to the courts etc. That action allowed Salmond's side to truthfully state they did not believe that the duty of candour to the court had been fully complied with.

External counsel were being deliberately hampered to the point of professional embarrassment by civil servants, including the head of the civil service, which resulted in the eye wateringly expensive commission & diligence exercise over the Xmas period 2018.

I cannot fathom how the LA & the FM could have accepted being placed in that position & why neither of them were willing or able to make a decision at any point prior to the start of that commission, to pull the plug purely on the basis that the cost to the public purse was excessive & only necessary as a result of the conduct of civil servants - who appeared to be trying their best to sabotage the whole case with their refusal to give factual statements & going rogue on disclosure documents.

The more I'm reading the documents, the more I'm absolutely staggered by the actions of those involved.

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/03/2021 17:00

At some point, if I get the time, I'll need to go back over the written& oral evidence sessions given by the key names in earlier committee sessions.

A lot of the evidence given back then was likely done so on the basis that the legal advice was never going to be made available to the committee. So it'll be interesting to revisit that evidence now in light of all that is now in the public domain.

I've got a home office to set up today - and this is now my no.1 distraction to doing that!

fandabbydoozy · 06/03/2021 17:06

when is the hamilton inquiry reporting? I thought it was soon but then someone said April?

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/03/2021 17:09

Not sure, April might be accurate but I've no idea. I think parliament breaks up before then doesn't it?

Roddy Dunlop QC has snapped! 😁

link

"This should go without saying, but for the hard of thinking here goes: it would be professionally improper for any counsel to reply to requests from random people on Twitter to discuss a case in which they were instructed. Such requests must be ignored."

So, still professional 😅

fandabbydoozy · 06/03/2021 17:13

that link doesn't work. did he delete it?

LexMitior · 06/03/2021 17:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/03/2021 17:16

Try again

https://twitter.com/roddyqc/status/1368135516441427969?s=21

anon444877 · 06/03/2021 17:25

I've yet to see a factual rebuttal of the errors from scot gov, point by point.

All of the response has been in effect supporting arguments which are unrelated to the facts in question (tories worse, it's misogyny driving this, it's an attempt to undermine the Indy cause driving this, but she's popular, Salmond is still guilty, it doesn't matter, the inquiry and questions being answered amount to enough scrutiny/great scrutiny, general assertions all documents were released in a timely way).

I suspect it's because the SNP PR know a lot of people can't follow all the details and that fighting on the detail will lead to concessions. It's a bit of a gift for people that love detail of course.

We'll see what happens.

TheShadowyFeminist · 06/03/2021 17:48

If I put myself in the shoes of the civil servant who went rogue on the redaction of emails, with the result being that my actions resulted in the court ordering a commission & diligence action over the Xmas period & costing £££££s, I would have been sacked. Without any hesitation. I'd have been marched out of my office (when I still worked in an office) and wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

If I put myself in the shoes of the PS when being asked to give a signed precognition statement on what I did in respect of a process which was the subject of a JR court process, and my actions were being challenged as being biased, had I refused to give a statement, I'd have been reminded of my responsibility under the terms of my employment contract that it was my duty to provide that statement. And likely disciplined if not (again) sacked & escorted from my office if I continued to refuse to provide a signed precognition of my actions as an employee in the course of my work.

It really does beg so many questions on this & in particular, what does it take a civil servant to have to do to warrant being sacked?

daisyfraser · 06/03/2021 17:59

Acht, thanks, Gang.
You get used to this in SNP Scotland.

It's always play the man not the ball with them. Coupled with pearl-clutching faux outrage. The endgame being to shut down their opponent without actually offering any debate.
Like the 'too poor, too wee, too stupit' stuff

I'm sure everyone here has spotted these tactics.

jabbathebutt · 06/03/2021 18:03

true.

StatisticallyChallenged · 06/03/2021 18:07

Aye, we've all seen it many a time daisyfraser.

I remember back in Indyref, tweeting something about the wee blue book and some twit repling and @-ing Wings with a comment like "this guy says the book isn't correct, everybody help me stop him". I got BOMBARDED, it was insane. Faux outrage and shouting down. Nuts.

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