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Salmond v Sturgeon round 4. What next?

968 replies

Cismyfatarse · 05/03/2021 18:09

New thread.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Cismyfatarse · 05/03/2021 18:10

Link to previous thread.

Salmond v Sturgeon Round 3 — Comment along with Sturgeon www.mumsnet.com/Talk/scotsnet/4181985-Salmond-v-Sturgeon-Round-3-Comment-along-with-Sturgeon

OP posts:
TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 18:13

Plonking down my place mark 👍

TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 18:14

Saw this on twitter

"Panicked SNP announces 9 billion new members, including Jesus and Santa Claus."

😂

LexMitior · 05/03/2021 18:19

I think it’s entertaining and predicted there would be more documentation.

Civil servants are paid to be discreet. You can’t really threaten them because politicians give their secrets to them.

Nipoleonthenoncommital · 05/03/2021 18:24

@TheShadowyFeminist

Saw this on twitter

"Panicked SNP announces 9 billion new members, including Jesus and Santa Claus."

😂

Wonder if the Easter bunny will join too?
TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 18:25

The sheer level of incompetence is actually staggering. I get it's hard to sack people who know where all the bodies are buried but surely there's a limit to just how far they can go?

Nipoleonthenoncommital · 05/03/2021 18:27

They could sign NDA documents and get a golden handshake surely.

LexMitior · 05/03/2021 18:27

How about this - it’s normal

Scottishskifun · 05/03/2021 18:28

Civil servants are paid to be discreet. You can’t really threaten them because politicians give their secrets to them.

Ummm no civil servants sign the civil service code of conduct and officials secrets act. They also are not allowed to speak out against the government or political party by the code. They are held by law however as well as FOI requests and judicial reviews.

LexMitior · 05/03/2021 18:29

I mean civil servants spend a huge amount of time trying to make their politicians look good.

I’ve actually met people who think that politicians wrote statements, or their speeches. Literally all done by the Civil Service.

TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 18:30

What's really frustrating is that the Tories calls for Sturgeon to resign are being overtaken by the Tories own failings on somewhat similar grounds. Sturgeon absolutely deserves her calls to resign & so do the Tories. Neither should get a 'free pass' on this stuff. Where's Anas Sarwar when we need him? Someone else needs to be calling for Sturgeon to resign off the back of this spectacular car crash. The Tories are f*cling it up cos they're as bad!

LexMitior · 05/03/2021 18:30

@Scottishskifun

Civil servants are paid to be discreet. You can’t really threaten them because politicians give their secrets to them.

Ummm no civil servants sign the civil service code of conduct and officials secrets act. They also are not allowed to speak out against the government or political party by the code. They are held by law however as well as FOI requests and judicial reviews.

Yes. But they don’t do that for free
Nipoleonthenoncommital · 05/03/2021 18:34

I think we are truly living in an omnishamblolic era.

TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 18:36

In case it's of interest, the SNP list candidates are in

Twitter thread

Scottishskifun · 05/03/2021 18:37

@LexMitior of course not but the civil service or Scottish civil service covers a wide range of jobs. Very few are based directly with private offices.

jabbathebutt · 05/03/2021 18:43

place marking

missed a trick with the thread title - should have called it "ploughing on regardless"

Selkiesarereal · 05/03/2021 18:45

I haven’t caught up with the latest instalment but I suspect it will be a sad continuation of this debacle.

TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 18:53

ploughing on regardless

Doh! 🤦🏻‍♀️😁

TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 18:59

Just saw this on twitter

tweet link

😂

All the shady shenanigans we've been taking about has put me in the mood to watch this again. Might be too much like a documentary of the inner working of Scotgov though 😁

StatisticallyChallenged · 05/03/2021 19:00

An extract from what Wings describes as the "kidney stone", 17th December

Bolding is mine.

"It has become increasingly clear that the approach of the petitioner in this matter is one which may appropriately be described as a “scorched earth” one. It is clear that there is no concern on his part
as to who might be criticised, or harmed, as a result of these proceedings. We understand that this is well understood by those “in the crosshairs” – most obviously the Permanent Secretary and the
First Minister. If instructions are to proceed notwithstanding then so be it – we are not in a position where we are professionally unable to mount a defence (because, for example, there is no statable defence). We are, however, perilously close to such a situation.

We are firmly of the view that at least one of the challenges mounted by the petitioner will be successful. We are told that there other aspects to the case which justify the running of the defence and that, accordingly, there is no prospect of the petition being conceded. That decision is not for us to take and as long as informed consent is given the decision to proceed is one which we must obey.

We are, however, entirely unconvinced as to what benefit that might arise from the hearing in January that might outweigh the potentially disastrous repercussions thereof. Leaving aside the large expenses bill that would inevitably arise, the personal and political fallout of an adverse decision – especially if, as may be the case, it is attended by judicial criticism – seems to us to be something which eclipses by some way the possibility of helpful judicial comments. That being so, and recognising as we do that the wider political picture is something that others are far better than are we to comment upon, we cannot let pass uncritically the suggestion that the petition cannot be conceded. It would be possible simply to accept (as is our genuine advice as a matter of law) that the appointment of JM as Investigating Officer was, whilst made in bona fide, on reflection indefensible. That would render nugatory all of the other, potentially more harmful, aspects to the challenge. Accepting that a technical error was made could not sensibly be criticised. This would protect those that might otherwise be harmed by the vigorous nature of the challenge that is to be mounted. It would stem the substantial expenses bill that we have no doubt is presently being incurred. Given that we genuinely cannot see the defence prevailing in any event, that seems to us to be the only sensible approach.

We are acutely aware that much of this has already been said, and discounted. The decision to proceed has been taken by very experienced legal and political minds, who are entitled to proceed as they wish. However, we are – independently but also mutually – unable to see that the benefits in proceeding come close to meeting the potential detriments in so doing. Given the potential for harm we simply wish all concerned – and we include the First Minister in this – to be absolutely certain that they wish us to plough on regardless notwithstanding the concerns which we have outlined.

StatisticallyChallenged · 05/03/2021 19:03

@TheShadowyFeminist

In case it's of interest, the SNP list candidates are in

Twitter thread

Looks like the worst of the SNP ID-politics wing didn't do so well. Awwwww
TheShadowyFeminist · 05/03/2021 19:08

There's a few worrying candidates in there though. Hopefully not enough to be too much of a concern.

The other Indy start up parties will be furiously scouring the lists to see who they are up against.

Statistically the extract you've highlighted is just staggering isn't it? That, and the PS refusing to provide a signed precognition. No wonder their counsel threatened to walk.

anon444877 · 05/03/2021 19:10

the tories in Westminster should face an inquiry and they'll have parliamentary privilege so no massive problems with documents they aren't allowed to discuss, why is tories worse still an excuse?

jabbathebutt · 05/03/2021 19:13

in what ways are the candidates worrying? what am I missing?

StatisticallyChallenged · 05/03/2021 19:18

@TheShadowyFeminist

There's a few worrying candidates in there though. Hopefully not enough to be too much of a concern.

The other Indy start up parties will be furiously scouring the lists to see who they are up against.

Statistically the extract you've highlighted is just staggering isn't it? That, and the PS refusing to provide a signed precognition. No wonder their counsel threatened to walk.

The doc dated 6-7th December is interesting too. My understanding here is that counsel have provided an updated prospects note on the 6th, and the SG (on the direction of LE) have written back essentially saying "why you sending us this now", along with "but what about our excuses"

Dunlops email response, IMO could be summarised as "your excuses suck and aren't much of a defence and I've told you this before"

Perhaps the legal bods can opine...

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