Salmond v Sturgeon round 4. What next?

[Cismyfatarse]

New thread.

The SG is like a driver who only looks a foot from a bonnet of the car to drive.

Agree. Total lack of strategic thinking then, throughout and even now.

Evident in lots of policy areas as well - ferries, education etc etc etc.

All of these legal opinions to me at least are being clear about the real flaws in the defence of the JR from the start.

Saying you think you have a stronger position on JR because Salmond was out of time - stupid. Why? Because a judge on judicial review will look to waive the rule in the administration of justice. For Salmond, the stakes could hardly have been higher. Scottish Counsel presumably had to put it in because was a technical point, but a terrible one to make a case on procedure. The judge would have had to have been a procedural stick in the mud to turn it down.

I think perhaps there was an effort not to see advice for what it was - possible argument but not really probable or good strategic arguments with a high chance of success.

Ask a lawyer if the argument is good, excellent, success based on probabilities, get really specific before you carry on...

@Ianrankinfan

The release of this material after Nicola Sturgeon has given her evidence is truly shocking.

The only reason I can of for this drip feeding of legal advice is to keep certain parts of it out of the public domain long enough so that NS couldn't be questioned about them under oath. Why else not just release it all at the same time? This latest batch certainly casts doubt on NS's story about the legal advice only showing it was untenable at a very late stage.

@StatisticallyChallenged 😂 nothing interesting I doubt due to location - will most likely be their office information - name, surname, office details. Tends to be the originator of an email pops up with it but replies don't unless inserted.

As for the Tory argument I would accept this more if NS hadn't always played the high ground card. Stating that Westminster MPs or incidents should then resign etc etc always having statements around resignations.... Well guess that's OK until a scandal falls at her feet and then it's a different story.

I think I still have to go for a) incompetent, not b) mass conspiracy.

I do agree - I just think that when it came down to it, they got so carried away with the magnitude of securing a scalp for the #metoo in Salmond that they lost all reason. Probably people who are normally quite professional & not at all utterly incompetent just lost their shit at the idea that Salmond could be the 1st big name to scalp.

I think that the 2 women who originally complained had genuine reasons to do so. I think under normal circumstances, they would have said they don't have either a policy to address them, or directed them to advocacy/support to determine if they could/should report to the police & that would have been absolutely the correct way to deal with this. Even kicking off a consultation on how to tackle historic complaints and get it right.

But instead, we know that they just f*cked up at almost every stage. So yes, I think total incompetence does apply.

Yes, this does look more like "we told you the donkey was poorly, then we told you it was dying, then we told you to call a priest, then we told you it was dead, then we told you to bury it, now we're telling you it's carcass is rotting...stop asking us if we can feed it anything to make it feel better and accept that FFS IT'S DEAD"

[quote Scottishskifun]@StatisticallyChallenged 😂 nothing interesting I doubt due to location - will most likely be their office information - name, surname, office details. Tends to be the originator of an email pops up with it but replies don't unless inserted.

As for the Tory argument I would accept this more if NS hadn't always played the high ground card. Stating that Westminster MPs or incidents should then resign etc etc always having statements around resignations.... Well guess that's OK until a scandal falls at her feet and then it's a different story.[/quote]
Not that one - the last actual paragraph!

@StatisticallyChallenged

Yes, this does look more like "we told you the donkey was poorly, then we told you it was dying, then we told you to call a priest, then we told you it was dead, then we told you to bury it, now we're telling you it's carcass is rotting...stop asking us if we can feed it anything to make it feel better and accept that FFS IT'S DEAD"

😂😂😂

@StatisticallyChallenged

Yes, this does look more like "we told you the donkey was poorly, then we told you it was dying, then we told you to call a priest, then we told you it was dead, then we told you to bury it, now we're telling you it's carcass is rotting...stop asking us if we can feed it anything to make it feel better and accept that FFS IT'S DEAD"

Class! :o

Wonder if the Easter bunny will join too?

The Easter Bunny is a Labour lackey, toddling around giving out unhealthful sugary snacks and encouraging overconsumption. A proper bunny would distribute vegetables with a Saltire on the packaging and sugar-free Irn Bru.

This made me laugh 😂

Link

@happygolurkey

Good points made above about the Tories.

Boris Johnson told the House of Commons that all Covid contracts had been published, when they hadn't. The High Court found 100 contracts hadn't been published when he assured MPs. Wonder if there'll be calls for him to resign for misleading parliament?
And last month a judge ruled the health secretary had acted unlawfully by not publishing contracts in the required timeframe.
Then of course there's the inquiry that found Priti Patel had breached the ministerial code but Boris said she could keep her job and just carry on regardless.
I know 'they are worse' isn't an argument. Still concerning though.
Nobody losing their jobs? I wonder how they get away with it with all the 'checks and balances' we keep hearing there are in England

There are no 'checks and balances'. The Tories' raison d'etre is to make the rich richer and they don't feel any shame as they are achieving what they have entered politics to do.

This is not about the Tories. Nicola said she wanted an open and transparent government.

We watched the very first episode of Yes Minister this week. The new government was voted in on openess and transparency. This was filmed in 1980. Nothing has changed!

@Ianrankinfan

This is not about the Tories. Nicola said she wanted an open and transparent government.

Nicola was questioned for longer over an internal inquiry than Blair was over Iraq.

No, it's not about the Tories and no one is saying there aren't lessons to be learned but the hypocrisy of the UK MSM and the UK political parties stinks.

StarryEyeSurprise

I'm just mystified that people saying they are watching with horror from outside the county at what's happening in Scotland aren't more concerned about what's going on in their own country - Bo 'lying' to parliament, Patel breaching the ministerial code (and keeping her job) and Hancock breaking the law. You'd think they'd be up in arms instead of telling us what a dangerous place Scotland is and how we have got to 'wake up.'

What I find surprising is how little this is being covered. How there has been nothing much in depth and what there has been is explained poorly.

I would love a good quality newspaper to lay it all out clearly and with analysis, claim and counter claim.

@Cismyfatarse

What I find surprising is how little this is being covered. How there has been nothing much in depth and what there has been is explained poorly.

I would love a good quality newspaper to lay it all out clearly and with analysis, claim and counter claim.

Something like a massive Fact Check document. then it could just be handed over to the committee - well, not to Linda as no doubt she'd lose it - hand it over to Jackie B I'm sure she'd know what to do with it :o

And the fact that the MSM find it newsworthy that 2 people ( who have known her for years) copied their brother's / friend's tweet just reeks of utter desperation.

@happygolurkey

StarryEyeSurprise

I'm just mystified that people saying they are watching with horror from outside the county at what's happening in Scotland aren't more concerned about what's going on in their own country - Bo 'lying' to parliament, Patel breaching the ministerial code (and keeping her job) and Hancock breaking the law. You'd think they'd be up in arms instead of telling us what a dangerous place Scotland is and how we have got to 'wake up.'

Yes, the radio silence is deafening. Funny that.

Deafening it may be, but it's hee haw to do with this thread.

I get the sense, from the legal docs, of two very experienced lawyers just being given the utter runaround

Checking in!

@Nipoleonthenoncommital

Deafening it may be, but it's hee haw to do with this thread.

Other posters mentioned the Eng / UK Government several times *but in a positive light. That was allowed.