Tiers until the end of time

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Quickly putting this up as last thread is full

@Lockdownbear

We don’t know that they don’t wish that their personal circumstances were different too. A large majority of childless couples are not that way through choice. It’s an emotive topic for many

It doesn't change the fact that the senior leaders have no clue what families are going through.
They make laws and rules that don't affect them without taking a balanced considered view on it.

England kept nurseries open because there was a recognition that WFH with young children was impossible and the risk in nurseries was very low.

Where is the balance in Scotland? Its just pile the pressure on parents without any help or really understanding how hard it is.

I don’t think you see my point whatsoever and have made no endeavour to do so.

For context my 2yo has returned to nursery this morning after being off since before Christmas and us working split hours to care for her while WFH. It’s been difficult but we are also in a fortunate position where we’ve been able to do it and I appreciate that not everyone has that option. But I understand full well how hard it is to care for a young child while WFH - and before you start - yes she’s a singleton but that’s not my choice and that’s the point I was making (which @rookiemere got)

Yes nurseries stayed open in England and it is your view that the reason for that was Boris’ enlightened experience of caring for young children.

Good for you you've managed, one two year old between you.

How about lob in a partner who works outwith the house, and another child who needs HS. Hours which aren't as flexible.

I don't care who made the final decision England has managed a better balance between covid and families.

I think apart from nurseries staying open the SG position has been much better for children - children up to 11 not counting for numbers allowed to meet and not being required to social distance means that many children are far less isolated than they would otherwise be. Organised non-contact sport being permitted throughout this lockdown has been a massive lifeline for my 5 year old as well - she's much happier than her cousin in England because we can walk to the park with our neighbours opposite (although 2 adults with 5 kids is tough), we could arrange for children to meet in the park and play and she gets a lot out of her weekly tennis lesson with other similar aged kids. None of which would have been permitted in England as school age children count towards the permitted numbers - so a 5 year old in England cannot meet a friend outside unless they are mature enough to walk a decent bit ahead of parents.

I'm seriously pissed off with being stuck in East Dunbartonshire and all the things that make me someone other than being 'mum' being cancelled but can't really say that the SH have been worse for most children than England.

@Lockdownbear did you read @florafoxtrot post properly? I really hope not because your reply is appalling and completely insensitive.

It depends on your personal factors doesn't it? The swimming pools and libraries being closed for longer here affected my kids more than meeting with friends in parks.

[quote WouldBeGood]@makingitup yes, I think if their personal circumstances were different they’d have more idea.

I’d love a couple of nights in a hotel at Easter[/quote]
The entire nation is under similar lockdown restrictions so I really doubt it.

Plus John Swinney has three kids so I'm pretty sure he's aware of what it's like to be a parent.

I don't think leaders personal family circumstances are really relevant to them being able to do the job. Unless of course their personal circumstances give rise to something morally dubious.

Being a parent or not shouldn't be relevant. As pp said that's not necessarily through choice. They don't make these decisions by themselves - they will be taking advice from a huge range of people.

Does Nicola Sturgeon hate holidays? Where did she say that?

Let’s not get on to the morally dubious parts of their personal circumstances 😃

[quote kurtrussellsbeard]**@Lockdownbear* did you read @florafoxtrot* post properly? I really hope not because your reply is appalling and completely insensitive.

[/quote]
It is isn’t it?

I don’t think my post was read as I said clearly that I’m very aware and grateful that our circumstances allowed us to manage our childcare and that it’s not the same for everyone.

Of interest to Twitter folk, Chris Musson has called out JL over his data spin. Not-unfortunately- for those dreadful adverts that appear to be set in an off-brand Ikea store. Worth a look if you believe that the poster boy for public health should be honest and not aligned to a party standpoint when delivering data to the public.
Worth a look on Twitter, not those ads, you can’t unsee those🙈

Neither of you know how long and hard I fought to get my kids. If that's what you are trying to get at.

@anon444877

I assume yours are old enough to meet independently, somewhere though. So many English 5-9 year olds are so isolated by the rules because they count for rule of 6 (so 2 families with 2 kids couldn't meet) and now they count as "people" for 2 people meeting for exercise so have been isolated since Christmas! I've got a lot of friends and relatives in England and it's really affecting them. Even worse for larger families though.

English kid got a school place with one KW parent, they also don't need to work outside the house.

My friend is WFH for the NHS and takes confidential calls and her boys were able to get a key worker place.

I guess a lot of that stuff is individual school.

no they aren't old enough to meet independently - ha most of my friends and all of my family are in England/RUK, I've heard no complaints on that score. I suspect I know a lot of people that put the introvert into introvert though so family swims and library trips are a huge loss.

In general, I suspect there's just been a lot of time for all of us, all over place to think about what we don't like particularly about our circumstances.

My kids would've had a place in school in England too, we're both wfh key workers.

we can't mention the museum, swimming or library in my house as it turns into a 'when will they open' harangue and ends with tears.

Still, it's a gorgeous sunny day and I can hear birds through my window.

A LOT of things vary so much by regional area within a country and the HT, definitely.

@Lockdownbear

Neither of you know how long and hard I fought to get my kids. If that's what you are trying to get at.

Nobody knows what anyone else has gone through. That’s the original point that was being made and it should be applicable to everyone.

@Lockdownbear no that's not what I was getting at. I was pointing out that your post was very insensitive and upsetting.

@anon444877

no they aren't old enough to meet independently - ha most of my friends and all of my family are in England/RUK, I've heard no complaints on that score. I suspect I know a lot of people that put the introvert into introvert though so family swims and library trips are a huge loss.

In general, I suspect there's just been a lot of time for all of us, all over place to think about what we don't like particularly about our circumstances.

My kids would've had a place in school in England too, we're both wfh key workers.

You don't get a place in school in England simply for being keyworkers if you're WFH. The Eng Government u- turned on that four days after term started.

@Bytheloch

Of interest to Twitter folk, Chris Musson has called out JL over his data spin. Not-unfortunately- for those dreadful adverts that appear to be set in an off-brand Ikea store. Worth a look if you believe that the poster boy for public health should be honest and not aligned to a party standpoint when delivering data to the public. Worth a look on Twitter, not those ads, you can’t unsee those🙈

Thanks for highlighting.

As someone who likes data I wish they were more transparent with it and yes it goes against the SG claims and therefore their own aim which many scientists have stated is unachievable now.

I'm glad that journalists are picking this up and challenging the government.

As I've said before the SG says they are driven by data but then fails to follow their own commitment of using regional data, the tier thresholds or being honest that the WHO threshold is based on a different indicator but they wish to apply it in their own way which isn't the way its intended!

All to go for bloody elimination strategy..... I'm all for maximum suppression but wondering how long it will take them to admit the strategy is unachievable and not correct this late in the game!

was that universally applied? I'm not sure we know that, as mentioned, a lot depended on region and HT. I work for a company based in England and they certainly offered to write letters to schools if necessary a long way after any u-turn supposedly happened.

My point wasn't that though, my point was that pick and mix comparisons of what was better are hardly going to attract universal agreement as it depends on individual circumstances and preferences.

I think it's clear that approaches being taken right now are broadly similar with differences on all sides that will suit some and not others. It's luck of the draw if the circumstances of your country suit your life.

Thanks for the JL latest.

They really wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked them between the eyes

That comment re J Swinney is a bit of a hostage to fortune. He divorced when the older 2 were around 5 and they are now grown up. I only know because I checked. His 3rd DC is similar age to mine (I figured that gives some hope he'll at least sort out education by the time she's at secondary) A 9 year old is a doddle to keep occupied if you aren't juggling which like me his DW is not. And yes I do know his wife has MS but again not quite in the same way my housebound DH does (puff piece on shielding she wrote for the press somewhat irritated me also - people with MS are not generally on the shielding list so she should at least have pointed this out before panicking everyone further.
The impression she gave about ability to social distance from your own DC in your own house was somewhat unrealistic for most people also).

However it is also laughable to suggest Boris and co understand normal family life. Once you are a Govt Minister with security and staff resources are very different. The one time I had any respect for Matt H and Boris was when they pointed out that Dominic Cummings was managing his family circumstances without all this hidden support because he was an employee not a politician.

@Dinnafashyersel

That comment re J Swinney is a bit of a hostage to fortune. He divorced when the older 2 were around 5 and they are now grown up. I only know because I checked. His 3rd DC is similar age to mine (I figured that gives some hope he'll at least sort out education by the time she's at secondary) A 9 year old is a doddle to keep occupied if you aren't juggling which like me his DW is not. And yes I do know his wife has MS but again not quite in the same way my housebound DH does (puff piece on shielding she wrote for the press somewhat irritated me also - people with MS are not generally on the shielding list so she should at least have pointed this out before panicking everyone further. The impression she gave about ability to social distance from your own DC in your own house was somewhat unrealistic for most people also).

However it is also laughable to suggest Boris and co understand normal family life. Once you are a Govt Minister with security and staff resources are very different. The one time I had any respect for Matt H and Boris was when they pointed out that Dominic Cummings was managing his family circumstances without all this hidden support because he was an employee not a politician.

When you get divorced you still generally are a parent to your kids. They don't stop being yours.

Honestly though I don't even know why we are considering this.

Surely we are all in agreement that government leaders aren't making decisions based on their own personal circumstance?