Here come those tiers again.

[Cismyfatarse]

New Fred.

The public messaging seems to be very much around suppression though, with Devi in particular quite aggressively refuting any suggestion that we might live with the virus

In terms of national policy though, and by that I mean UK-wide, it's very far from up to her.
I find her viewpoint quite extremist actually.

@MaxNormal I do too. When I've watched government evidence sessions (by which I mean UK), her position seemed to be very much a minority one.

I don't mind sacrificing holidays abroad for a year or two. I do mind it currently being illegal to travel to England! It's not sustainable for a long time period and with elderly grandparents come May time we will travel come hell or high water as at 92 we can't just say we will sacrifice it this year.
The separation of families longterm isn't a sacrifice many would consider reasonable!

@Rae36

I just want to see my mum 80 miles away. That seems a long way off right now. My friend's whole family are in the Philippines, she feels she might never see them again, she's so sad. Not everyone wants to travel just for fun in the sun.

Yes, exactly. I think the whole "I'm happy not to have a holiday to have normal life" kind of misses the point. Closing borders is much much more than not being able to have a holiday. Families and friends will be separated. Potentially forever. (Of course, there are many other issues re preventing free movement for work/ cultural or academic exchange/ food and infrastructure etc etc, but just concentrating on people for now). It's fine for those with families and support networks in Scotland. But what gives those people the right to make sacrifices on the part of people with networks elsewhere? They may think that sacrifice is too great for them. If Greater Glasgow was shut off as a leper colony, and no one allowed out or in for some indeterminate length of time, but everyone else was allowed to go about their business as normal it would be fine for me. I don't go to Glasgow that much so it doesn't really affect me, other than missing the odd concert. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make to have a better life. But I'm pretty sure others would disagree! Not least anyone living there...

Honestly from hearing from loads of other people as part of the panel her viewpoint isn't extreme at all, it's what they all want.

@MaxNormal

I'd be more than happy for normal life but closed borders. If you're that desperate to go away, quarantine

My family are all abroad. I haven't seen them for a long time. I accept the fact that is going to go on a while longer but not years.

DH works abroad. He can't afford to quarantine every time he goes away.

Please accept that shut borders will mean anything but a normal life for some of us.

Yes I get that, both of my best friends' husbands work abroad and they're in difficult situations too. Their husbands just end up staying away because it doesn't make sense to come back really.

No-one is allowed to die from covid. We seem to be perfectly comfortable with people dying from anything else though. Can't say this or you are a monster or a tory or deluded or not doing scotsnet right etc etc etc.

I think the plan will be for winter lock down every year so we can underfund protect the NHS.

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us I want to do all that too and agree we need a roadmap, but complete lifting is stupid at this stage of vaccination.

I am vulnerable and I am frightened by the media talk of back to normal once the over 50s are all done. I'm 40 and I'm the wrong kind of vulnerable apparently, where I cannot do what I did before as its no longer safe, but I'm also not in any of the priority groups for the jag!

on the subject of quarantine and foreign jobs

One of my neighbours is a hairdresser and can't work

Her DH does some kind of security job abroad for months at a time but now he's lost that job due to quarantine.

They have zero income at the moment. I don't know if they are eligible for anything (I didn't ask) but she did say they are now onto using their savings and tightening their belts. She's also selling lots of things on facebook marketplace.

Certainly can understand trade offs, I don't like implied moral judgment on preferences though include that you get around covid - not from you, but Devi etc. Normal life - not very normal for us if we have some activities back in Scotland but can still see no family.

I want to travel for fun in the sun. And I’m jut ashamed. That’s not a weird or evil thing to want.

Not

Nobody is seriously campaigning for a complete lifting, but at the moment there is no plan whatsoever that I can see.

We've instead got the rumour mill saying that the p1-3 and nurseries aren't actually going back Tuesday.

See to be honest the list of exemptions to the travel ban is pretty long. If you need to access support networks elsewhere then that does seem to be allowed. During last lockdown when it was at its most severe I travelled to see a terminally ill parent with absolutely no hassle whatsoever. I was quite amazed actually.

I think there's a bit of hyperbole here about closed borders / travel bans being forever and so on. We shouldn't really be going anywhere for obvious reasons. If however you really do need to go somewhere then I'm pretty sure you'd be covered by the extensive exemption list.

Obviously the exemptions for the quarantine thing haven't been published yet and fingers crossed they are sensible and don't affect people work.

@anon444877 if the schools don't go back I'll be very worried about what's going on.

How is it hyperbole that I've no idea when my kids will be able to see their grandparents or other relatives again?

I understand it won't be forever but Nicola has said she can't guarantee any travel within Scotland this year, let alone anything else. The situation requires a bit of a fuss.

Their husbands just end up staying away because it doesn't make sense to come back really

DH can't stay away though, as it''s all different countries he works in for shortish stints with gaps in between so that's not feasible.

The list of exemptions for travel outside the Common Travel Area has also just been tightened into pretty much non-existence.

We're genuinely now having to look at relocating to England. There's nothing to keep us here, DH works across various locations and I work from home. No kids at school. No point staying here and letting them ruin us.

If it gets to the stage that you don't feel like your kids are going to see their grandparents again then take them to see them. I'm assuming you're meaning if ill or whatever.

That's what I did. With no hassle and absolutely no guilt.

Nobody is suggesting that your children should never see family members again. If that's the circumstance then you would be allowed to travel.

kurt fingers crossed, my younger one would really benefit from being back in school.

Or maybe I've read that incorrectly and you just mean you don't know when you'll see them again?

It's shit but everyone is in the same boat. We can make a fuss all we like but it's unlikely to change things I suppose.

The freedom to travel is a fairly basic one. As is the right to see family and friends. And the right to work.

I can’t see the statutory instrument or amendment about the quarantine hotels up yet, though it’s to come into force tomorrow.

Mine too. I worry about the knock on consequences for other year groups and other sectors if they don't go back.

I don't know how folk in hospitality are coping. I have friends in hospitality but not close enough that I would know their ins and outs. I just don't know how they're coping! It breaks my heart.

I think there are people who accept and people who rail. I kind of wish I was an accepting type. 😃 But I feel the need to protest about what I perceive as disproportionate measures and the removal of basic human rights. Each to their own.

And I'd reframe that @WouldBeGood as people who are willing to see the bigger picture and people who won't or can't.

Sigh