Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care?

[sessell]

Evidence of a conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond has been building. There are compelling reports in the Times, Herald , Sky News and across the internet. But there is less reporting in Scotland and a lot of people seem to not know or care. I'm Scottish but I don't live there. I've been hooked by this as a story of power and corruption. I'm on the fence re independence, just don't know enough so don't have an axe in that debate. I've never been an SNP member. But I do care about justice and that no-one should be above the law, especially politicians when they are seeking to imprison their potential rivals.

After reading this affadavit from Craig Murray which brings it all together and is incendiary I'm pretty convinced there has been a conspiracy and that Sturgeon and her collaborators should face justice. Although the justice department (Crown office) also seem to be mired in this. Here is the affadavit www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/01/my-sworn-evidence-on-the-sturgeon-affair/

I've shown this to a few people and have been shocked that a couple have said, yes it stinks but I like Sturgeon. I'd be interested in the views of Scotsnet. How much do you know about this? Do you care? Is it OK for our politicians to imprison their rivals, like Putin and co do, if you like their other objectives. Has Scotland become a corrupt nation? Is that OK?

Ohh, what an absolute shitshow.

Former Sturgeon fangirl here, met her a couple of times. Believed in her competence and ability. What's happened to her?

Cancelled my SNP membership last October. Don't know yet how I'll vote in May.

Cannot fathom those on this thread saying they don't care what she might have done. If true, how can you possibly overlook the corruption that could have sent an innocent man to jail? I don't want my new country to be born out of corruption and sinister forces. I'm reserving final judgment until she and Salmond both give evidence in the next couple of weeks, but it looks like the end game for Sturgeon. Wings certainly thinks she'll be out by the end of this month.

It does all seem very curious and suspicious timing considering the May elections should really have been the last POSSIBLE "mandate" for the party to finally do something with and convert into actual independence. I think there's a lot more to it than any of us could imagine right now.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, but doesn't remotely affect my belief (of 40+ years) that Scotland should be a normal independent country –why would it?

Voting Labour won’t make a shred of difference and Scots know it. It’s how England votes that matters as Brexit clearly showed. Many Scots feel their votes don’t count and they’re not stupid to feel that way. Wanting independence does not mean a wanting the SNP to remain in power.

Wanting independence doesn't- but voting snp does!

Downton, I don't feel my vote counts in Scotland, never mind the UK.

Scot here, lived in the north of England for years. Post industrial area, lots of poverty, quite similar to the Scottish city I grew up in. Some English family members live in Scotland, as is quite usual these days. We see the similarities across the UK rather than the differences.

I hope the truth comes out re AS/NS. That apart, I've tried to find out
what drives the desire for separation, but all I can find are wishlists for the future which seem to avoid the real issues. I believe poverty in Scotland will get worse and society will level down, not up, especially if the top tax payers decide its not for them. But perhaps the standard of living isn't as important to SNP voters as their perception of freedom. Not a fan of Nicola, although I admire her ability to get so much support for the SNP.

There are certainly some who don't mind if we are poorer - I recall quite a few at the time of the indyref who openly said that they knew the financial case don't add up and that we'd potential be poorer for many many years but that in their view it was worth it

There would have been gossip if Salmond was known to be a groper. Scotland’s political world is a small one and he had plenty of enemies. Word would have got out.

There was gossip! Friends that work for Scot gov talked for years before even indyref about how handsy AS was.

I think it seems like a romantic dream for its followers, a bit like Brexit in England.

I don’t think they do, by and large, care about financial impact but more about self determination at any cost. Which is fine if it’s an informed choice, but not for me.

I think this is also shown in the willingness to ignore the ongoing corruption and anti women narrative of the leadership just now.

This type of corruption would rightly be condemned if it were Boris involved.

Gossip there was, but he was found not guilty.

And gossip would provide an ideal hook to hang a political rival on, should one wish to destroy their reputation. I’m no fan of any of them but it is pretty sleazy.

@Downton57

Allegedly there was plenty of gossip! I’ll clearly not change any minds here, as you all clearly loathe NS and are happy to believe the worst, but surely even the most ardent Tories on this thread can see that Boris Johnson is very unpopular in Scotland and to oust him and his cronies voting SNP is the only way to be rid? Serious question. What do you think Scots should do instead when nothing else will bring change?

But why would anyone vote to split up 300 years of union just to get rid of a Tory government. That makes zero sense

That's like the admonishment no voters get when they say they won't vote for independence because they don't like the SNP

Mad

Even though AS was found not guilty, the things that he admitted to would be a sackable offence in my organisation. He's a married man and his conduct was unnaceptable. "Sleepy cuddles"

@Graffitiqueen

There would have been gossip if Salmond was known to be a groper. Scotland’s political world is a small one and he had plenty of enemies. Word would have got out.

There was gossip! Friends that work for Scot gov talked for years before even indyref about how handsy AS was.

That’s interesting. I’d heard plenty of tales of him being a bit of an arrogant arse but never any on the inappropriate behaviour side.

@Graffitiqueen being sacked is not the same as being charged in a criminal court.

And if it’s all above board, why is Nicola Sturgeon’s husband, and Chief Exec of the party, refusing to appear at the inquiry?

Why was taxpayers’ money spent on SNP defending the case they lost?

I totally agree wouldbegood. A higher burden of proof absolutely should be required in court. My point was that his behaviour although not deemed criminal, was unacceptable from someone in a position of power.

I agree. As I say, I’m no fan.

I used to be a fan. Although disagreeing with his politics, I was proud that we had a politician of his calibre in Scotland. My admiration ended with his conduct after indyref and my opinion of him has continued to slide ever since.

🤮🤮🤮🤮 to sleepy cuddles with AS.

Sleepy cuddles, what a grim thought.

There was gossip for years which the snp could've acted upon but chose not to. Until it suited the shady beggars.

Downton this makes absolutely no sense. If Labour had not lost most of their Scottish seats to the SNP then the Party would be in a completely different place. In the last Labour Gov you had Gordon Brown as PM, Alistair Darling as Chancellor, Douglas Alexander running the UK electoral strategy all Scottish and representing a Scottish constituency. That is before you start factoring in Charlie Falconer and Tony Blair et al.

It is little wonder the Party has become narrow and London centric because the Scottish electorate chose to lose its patience and jettison a whole generation of experienced politicians and their support network in favour of a single issue Scottish special interest group.

I would far rather work for a decent Labour Government for the whole of the UK with Scottish MPs at the heart of it than end up with permanent Tory/Tory-lite England and Scotland Independent while Dependent and thoroughly insular and marginalised.

It is also a racing certainty that post Independence Scottish politics would fracture into a morass of ever more niche special interest groups with potentially even less social cohesion and forward vision than now. That is even after you sort out the severance deal with England, Wales and NI and the way forward in relation to the EU.

It’s a bit before my time but wasn’t the introduction of a form of proportional representation for local government in Scotland the start of the end for Labour, as it broke their grip on power in the Central Belt?

Holyrood was designed so that it would be near impossible for one party to govern alone - hence the FPTP and the list system - and I wonder if some of the problems we’re now seeing are due to the SNP being beholden to the Greens for a majority.

Sound familiar? Power corrupts....”. Hegemony often grew into self-perpetuating oligarchy, leading to accusations of corruption, croneyism, nepotism and the malign influence of patronage networks. In parts of west-central Scotland, opposition councillors became almost an endangered species as councils began to resemble one-party states in which the important ­decisions were made by Labour groups behind closed doors.”

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/03/strange-death-labour-scotland

Labour have been losing their grip on Scotland for many years, and that situation worsened at the last election, partly because the majority here didn't want Brexit and Labour did nothing but dither. In 2014 Scots were told by Better Together that voting no to independence and staying in the union was the only way to ensure we'd remain in the EU. I don't have a clue what will happen next, and I too would prefer a Labour government in a United Kingdom, but I can see why many Scots have lost patience.

@Dinnafashyersel all of that in my head- you have summed it up perfectly. Also @Seymour5 spot on too.
I’m thankful every day for MN posters who see and understand the wider picture, gives many of us a speckle of hope for post-May.

@reprehensibleme

Downton, I don't feel my vote counts in Scotland, never mind the UK.

It doesn't leave you feeling terribly engaged does it?

I went for an independent last time — I'm in a safe seat, but this man seemed really good when he doorstepped, so I thought I'd try to help him get his deposit back.

I can’t see a single advantage of Scotland being independent that could possibly offset the massive economic downside.
You need a damn good reason to break up a 300 year old successful union with the world’s fifth biggest economy, in order to go it alone as a small, weak, poverty struck banana republic!
The SNP must either have an irrational hatred of the English, or have their snouts in the trough for opportunities of local power and cash to exploit running a new country.
Even if they qualified for EU membership (which they don’t, as they have no currency and a deficit 3x too large), it wouldn’t begin to offset the loss due to leaving the UK.