Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care?

[sessell]

Evidence of a conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond has been building. There are compelling reports in the Times, Herald , Sky News and across the internet. But there is less reporting in Scotland and a lot of people seem to not know or care. I'm Scottish but I don't live there. I've been hooked by this as a story of power and corruption. I'm on the fence re independence, just don't know enough so don't have an axe in that debate. I've never been an SNP member. But I do care about justice and that no-one should be above the law, especially politicians when they are seeking to imprison their potential rivals.

After reading this affadavit from Craig Murray which brings it all together and is incendiary I'm pretty convinced there has been a conspiracy and that Sturgeon and her collaborators should face justice. Although the justice department (Crown office) also seem to be mired in this. Here is the affadavit www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/01/my-sworn-evidence-on-the-sturgeon-affair/

I've shown this to a few people and have been shocked that a couple have said, yes it stinks but I like Sturgeon. I'd be interested in the views of Scotsnet. How much do you know about this? Do you care? Is it OK for our politicians to imprison their rivals, like Putin and co do, if you like their other objectives. Has Scotland become a corrupt nation? Is that OK?

@hamstersarse

I think Sturgeon is one of those people who shouts a lot about her integrity...who are most often the people very much lacking in integrity

Yep! Anyone else who broke or bent lockdown laws.. NS and others 'so disappointed in them, they should resign' NS and yes very slight error in being maskless inside and talking to people, albeit briefly and it being mentioned in the news 'she's being victimised, bullied, how dare anyone notice or comment on it'

@StatisticallyChallenged

I'm no Salmond fan, and he strikes me as a bit of a pompous sleezy git. But pompous and a bit smarmy doesn't mean abuser.

If this is true that he was set up, it was very clever in that he will never truly shake it off. It played to his weaknesses and so people could imagine the allegations being true. I'll be honest - I did.

This and as to Sturgeon's 'integrity' how can you trust someone who signs a declaration to accept the 2014 result and then does the complete opposite immediately.

I do care. But I’m so utterly worn down by the SNP cult that I have assumed they don’t care about anything

The country could collapse around us, our children uneducated and we are living off thistle heads and the SNP would still gain a majority. So I am no plussed. But you are right - in theory it’s massive

I care very much if the leader of the country has colluded to frame a person of some pretty hideous crimes, and misused/abused huge amounts of government resources in the process. This goes beyond a lack of integrity, and is absolutely criminal if true. I'm amazed that people are happy to brush this under the carpet because they like Nicola, or think Salmond is sleazy, or they're just holding out until they get independence before draining the swamp - what kind of independent Scotland are you trying to set up here where the leader can commit crimes and get away with it because she's 'popular'?

I've also done an about turn on Salmond - I believed the allegations when they were revealed because he does seem a bit sleazy, but I have to respect that he was acquitted of all charges, and the documents that have come to light since then (as well as the astounding level of obstruction from the Scottish government) do tend to indicate that he was set up.

As to why the papers aren't all over this, which they most definitely would be if say Boris had conspired to frame a political rival; I think that the Scottish government has taken out the equivalent of superinjunctions to prevent reporting on a lot of this. Andrew Neil alluded to this on Twitter a few weeks ago (and that he was going to fight it), and I really hope that this is brought to light because I don't want to live in some kind of fascist state where you can't truthfully report on things that put the leaders in a bad light.

I was discussing this with friends only yesterday after we read the affidavit. I am actually surprised that I don't care that much.

In another time I think I would be, but I just think I am so worn down by this past year and all the constant lies, corruption and the say one thing do another attitude of politicians over the whole covid period.

I think NS has done a decent job in difficult circumstances this year, whether you agree with her politics or not. If everything is true then I do think the right thing would be for her to go. But I have concerns about a change of leadership at this strange in the pandemic, rightly or wrongly.

As I said I am quite surprised at my own attitude.

I agree about the change in leadership just now does concern me slightly.

What I can't wrap my head around is the why? From what I could see they had a strong relationship so why collude to bring him down? I realise for selfish needs could be the case but I just wonder how she thought she would get away with that? It seems really odd. Is it more she pushed it when she realised he was done for? So absolutely underhand and wrong but a full on conspiracy? I can't work that out.

I do care, NS is not above the rules slog parliament. I would hope if this is found to be true she hands in her resignation.

She would be the first to tell the leader of any other party to do the same.

@StarryEyeSurprise

What would you have done differently op? I'd encourage women to let the police know if they told me they'd been securely assaulted.

The allegations go far beyond this, it's not a case of encouraging a victim to go to the police.

@NotCornflakes I think your post is a wind up!

My own view - anyone who doesn't care that Nicola Sturgeon may have conspired to land Alex Salmond in it must be a brainwashed SNP robot. Why would it be ok for anyone to do that - never mind someone in her position?

I used to be unsure about Scottish independence but I'm now so, so against it. Why are so many SNP voters more like fans than voters - voters with critical thinking skills? They will accept any mistake/ misconduct and brush it off, usually saying the UK govt are worse. Why does that make it OK?! Seriously think Scotland has an issue with some not very bright people who want independence at all costs for nationalist reasons and who are blind to SNP conduct. Nationalist based governments with devoted fan like members never tend to end well....(see 1930s history for examples)

I feel the same as you @Barnicus

As to why the papers aren't all over this, which they most definitely would be if say Boris had conspired to frame a political rival; I think that the Scottish government has taken out the equivalent of superinjunctions to prevent reporting on a lot of this. Andrew Neil alluded to this on Twitter a few weeks ago (and that he was going to fight it), and I really hope that this is brought to light because I don't want to live in some kind of fascist state where you can't truthfully report on things that put the leaders in a bad light.

I think injunctions are part of it but also that half the press are in thrall and others are scared to lose their jobs if they criticise.

@IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021

I agree about the change in leadership just now does concern me slightly.

What I can't wrap my head around is the why? From what I could see they had a strong relationship so why collude to bring him down? I realise for selfish needs could be the case but I just wonder how she thought she would get away with that? It seems really odd. Is it more she pushed it when she realised he was done for? So absolutely underhand and wrong but a full on conspiracy? I can't work that out.

I think this might be because the SNP is basically an alliance of convenience. The party is actually quite politically diverse - some are the old Tartan Tories, probably not right wing but definitely more centrist, then you've got the younger very "woke" brigade who are very lefty, lots of identity politics and so on. I see Salmond more on the centrist side whereas Sturgeon is aligning herself firmly with the left. Salmond has come back once before, and if he did it again it could split the party and it only remains in power because it's the party for folk who are pro indy so the vote isn't split - what would happen if Salmond returned either inside the SNP or as a part of a new party?

Better to just stick a knife in and ensure he's politically dead.

@StarryEyeSurprise

What would you have done differently op? I'd encourage women to let the police know if they told me they'd been securely assaulted.

1. I would not introduce an internal HR policy 'retrospectively'. That goes against every principle of employment law. (Introduced just after AS announced his intention to return to politics).
2. I'd follow the legal advice if I was told I'd violated employment law and shown bias and had no chance of winning the judicial review / tribunal. I would not waste £500k public money on what could only be a smear campaign.
3. I would accept the results of a female majority jury graciously and not continually hint at the defendants unproven guilt.
4. I would make it clear to my team that we need to scrupulously keep to and be seen to be acting within the letter and spirit of the law. I'd come down hard on anyone stepping over that line. I'd want me and my government to lead by example.
5. I would not countenance a campaign that: pushed for a criminal trial against the wishes of the original 2 complainants; that pressured police and crown office to try harder to find some dirt, with 22 officers working on it full time; that had advisers and civil servants plotting how to 'get salmond' on a secret WhatsApp group; that had senior civil servants leaking against salmond and violating the civil servant code (they'd be sacked pronto). I could go on.
6. Of course I'd encourage women to contact the police if they alleged assault. But then I would not seek to undermine their case by using it for my own political ends. Weaponising #metoo was 'clever' in that it numbed media coverage and public oversight. But ultimately what NS has done has made things worse for women. If #metoo can be used this cynically women are less likely to be believed in future.

@barnicus @parkheadparadise. I know where you are coming from. A few months ago I would have been a fan of NS. She does seem to have done a decent job on so much. Which just makes this such a massive shame. And also a worry about who could replace her. Although fear of rivals seems to be her Achilles heel. She's made sure Joanna Cherry, one of her biggest rivals, can't stand for the Scottish parliament and is now trying to scupper Joan McAlpine (not a leadership rival, but not on team NS). It's mafia behaviour. And it seems so needless, I would have thought with her popularity levels she was unassailable.

Is that all @sessell

I can’t stand her she’s no better than any other politician in terms of morals or duplicity she is just very good at playing to the mob who can’t stand the big bad Tories but who fail to see how bad Scotland is under the SNP .

@StatisticallyChallenged thank you for that explanation. There is so much random information about it it can be hard to figure out what actually happened.

Can you explain how AS being charged with serial assault would help the FM politically? You think he was going to become first minister again? As that was an impossibility.
Also- the police don't investigate sexual assault or charge someone unless there's a good reason. It's sad people are reducing these women to brainless pawns that lied on behalf of the FM.

Would they not be charged themselves if that was the case? That's what normally happens if women fabricate sexual assault allegations.

FYI- the civil servant you refer to include Leslie Evans. Her plan worked and unionists are lapping it up.

Putin.. 1839s.. corruption,.. mislead Parliament. Fuck me. The FM would have

I had a meeting with Nicola Sturgeon and Michael Matheson a couple of years ago now.
She came across well. I liked her.
Anytime I mention this to DH he always reminds me actions speak louder than words.

Oh dear, I kept in the second half of my comment that I'd meant to delete in order to keep the tone civil.

@StarryEyeSurprise

Oh dear, I kept in the second half of my comment that I'd meant to delete in order to keep the tone civil.

Oh yes, "oh dear"

I'm not sure why people believe Nicola Sturgeon has done a decent job.

She communicates well in her Covid briefings. But she has not really done a good job with Covid any more than she has done a good job with education.

I've always intensely disliked Alex Salmond and am against independence, so frankly, if they are discredited it's fine by me. However, the supporters who think everything in Scotland is better than anywhere else, and I know a few of them, won't pay any attention.

@starryeyesurprise. I would have thought that too re the police. But incredibly in Scotland the lord advocate who's the chief prosecutor is a political appointee and cabinet member. It's far too close a relationship and wide open to political abuse and corruption.
Read this article to see how deep the stench is: www.heraldscotland.com/news/19034561.iain-macwhirter-like-fish-scotlands-crown-office-rotting-head/

The crown prosecution service has been found to have acted maliciously in another big case recently, costing the tax payer £21 million. The Herald links it to their behaviour re Salmond and concludes: "I fear there is a culture of collusion and cover up, and I believe there is an ethical void at the prosecution service. This is intolerable in a democracy. There is ample evidence that the Crown Office is not fit for purpose and it’s time for the legal establishment and Holyrood to wake up and act to arrest this decay before it becomes irreversible."

@NotCornflakes

Live in Scotland, SNP voter, like Nicola, do not know or care if this is true. Salmond had it coming.

This.

NS is power mad