Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care?

[sessell]

Evidence of a conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond has been building. There are compelling reports in the Times, Herald , Sky News and across the internet. But there is less reporting in Scotland and a lot of people seem to not know or care. I'm Scottish but I don't live there. I've been hooked by this as a story of power and corruption. I'm on the fence re independence, just don't know enough so don't have an axe in that debate. I've never been an SNP member. But I do care about justice and that no-one should be above the law, especially politicians when they are seeking to imprison their potential rivals.

After reading this affadavit from Craig Murray which brings it all together and is incendiary I'm pretty convinced there has been a conspiracy and that Sturgeon and her collaborators should face justice. Although the justice department (Crown office) also seem to be mired in this. Here is the affadavit www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/01/my-sworn-evidence-on-the-sturgeon-affair/

I've shown this to a few people and have been shocked that a couple have said, yes it stinks but I like Sturgeon. I'd be interested in the views of Scotsnet. How much do you know about this? Do you care? Is it OK for our politicians to imprison their rivals, like Putin and co do, if you like their other objectives. Has Scotland become a corrupt nation? Is that OK?

Dinnafashyersel I wasn't being naive. I was unimpressed at a man choosing to talk about another person, who happens to be a woman, in those terms. Letting someone know they were joked about as a "booby prize" isn't necessary and it doesn't reflect well on him.

hard to tell due to redaction but I don't think the booby prize was the woman...I think it was her spouse Just as nasty and unnecessary though.

[quote Horehound]@JaimeLeeCurtains I agree, it's a very risky thing that multiple women had to be willing to do and could have ruined their lives. Also all their family will have been asking questions to them etc so I just don't see women doing this.

I DO think Nicola might have lied about when she found out the allegations.[/quote]
I don't think it happened either. Reading through the journalist's info, it's just hear say. No evidence. And thats reiterated in the fact he wasn't asked to appear. He's a friend of AS's too.
In my eyes, what matters is that the FM took the allegations seriously and the women went to the police. He was found innocent but probably due to lack of evidence ( I don't know the ins and outs of the court case).

I thought both stats but it's all so murky I haven't been following closely. Cynical eyerolls all round. The general rush to use the courts to subvert democracy bothers me more generally (see Wings and Kezia).

I must say I don't really understand the importance of when she actually found out about the allegations, and what difference that makes to the whole thing. I don't buy that she "forgot" about a meeting, but she may have misremembered the order of things or something. Yes, records should have been kept, she should have checked the dates and so on, but it seems an odd thing to get so worked up about. Of course it's important that she did know about the allegations, but her actions before and after seem more important to me. Or is it just the fact that she lied at all (albeit maybe in error)?

He was found innocent but probably due to lack of evidence ( I don't know the ins and outs of the court case).

For several of the allegations, eye witnesses contradicted the claims - e.g that Salmond had groped a colleague. One woman alleged he had groped her leg while in the back of a limo, but it was shown that the car had a central unit in the back seat with a phone etc so what was alleged wasn’t practically possible. So it was a bit more than lack of evidence, it was that there was evidence that actually disproved some of the allegations.

ancientgran agree its distasteful. However informing an unwanted admirer you wouldn't touch them with a barge pole and then making your sentiment widely known is a very effective defence against a honey trap.

How many times have we seen on MN someone caught out texting in a pestlike fashion because they wouldn't take No for an answer and the
recipient being accused of all sorts?

No idea if this is what was going on but it is a plausible interpretation.

I'm assuming the person who "set their cap" is relevant to the story, and most likely that the "booby prize" is too and that it has therefore been included for a reason/context although the wording isn't terribly nice

We don't have to like any of the people involved, including Craig Murray, but we have to care whether what he says happened is the truth and the implications of that, not just decide that we like NS therefore she must not have been involved or that we think she's too clever to do that or whatever.

What matters is the truth (and therefore the honesty and integrity of those whom we have elected or who hold high office).

'o still higher but really not that much in it, and pretty astonishing given our stricter lockdowns and sparser population'

Scotland does not have a 'sparser population than rUK' as we have large areas with almost no population and the majority (83%) of Scots live in urban areas, just like the vast majority (also (83%) of the rUK population live in a similarly dense areas.

The reason for Scotland's lower death rate is NOT population density and wish folk would stop and think about that before they make such silly statements. Scots don't live in the middle of moors or mountains - we live in cities, towns and villages and that's how viruses spread.

As for me, I will still be voting for the SNP as a route to independence as I can't bear the thought of being ruled by a blatantly and unashamedly corrupt tory government.

The UK MSM is in full blown attack mode against NS and the SNP as the poll results are becoming serious.

I care very much, and wish the current enquiry was able to carry out it's job properly.

I wish I knew who to believe, both Craig Murray and Wings come across as a tad unhinged at times, but the enquiry seems to be being blocked at every turn.

I expect most politicians to be a little be corrupt, but if the allegations are true this makes SNP / ScotGov corrupt through and through.

Yes, if there was nothing to hide and everything is above board, why is there so much effort being made to not release documents and not appear at enquiries?

I don't think it is a matter of believing the opinion of CM. Most of his affidavit is already corroborated by evidence now in the public domain through court reports or the meagre press coverage. What he does is bring it all together. So it's a handy overview for ppl who don't know much. He does add some details and context, all of which he says he has sources for. But even if you ignored those points there is clear and uncontested evidence out there.lots of it and growing by the day. The point of the thread is - are you paying attention and are you bothered. I am paying attention and as a result I am, very much, bothered.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder

'o still higher but really not that much in it, and pretty astonishing given our stricter lockdowns and sparser population'

Scotland does not have a 'sparser population than rUK' as we have large areas with almost no population and the majority (83%) of Scots live in urban areas, just like the vast majority (also (83%) of the rUK population live in a similarly dense areas.

The reason for Scotland's lower death rate is NOT population density and wish folk would stop and think about that before they make such silly statements. Scots don't live in the middle of moors or mountains - we live in cities, towns and villages and that's how viruses spread.

As for me, I will still be voting for the SNP as a route to independence as I can't bear the thought of being ruled by a blatantly and unashamedly corrupt tory government.

The UK MSM is in full blown attack mode against NS and the SNP as the poll results are becoming serious.

I was thinking earlier that the whole AS affair has turned into the witch trials ( if they float they're a witch, if they drown well...)

People gunning for blood because the FM didn't take early / enough action.

People gunning for blood because the FM took too much action.

All the whole, the drip drip drip of the MSM/ Tories 'misleading parliament, corruption', yada yada.

Anyway, it's not worth the head space for me. I need to find out how to hide threads

The psychology behind supporters of the SNP or any political party who cannot accept any criticism or flaws in the leadership or party, is baffling.

You may as well say that NS can be guilty of anything, the legal process can be compromised, the media manipulated, the electorate treated with contempt and an unelected man in the form of the First Minister’s husband pulling the strings.

Independence at any cost.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder "The reason for Scotland's lower death rate is NOT population density and wish folk would stop and think about that before they make such silly statements. Scots don't live in the middle of moors or mountains - we live in cities, towns and villages and that's how viruses spread."

Just since I've been accused of making unthinking silly statements, I pulled the population density of our main cities against a few of the larger ones from England. Just a snap shot of urban areas since, as you say, overall density doesn't account for large swathes of unpopulated areas. Even our most populous areas don't come close to say London or several other English cities in terms of density.

Glasgow 3400/km2
Edinburgh 1830/km2
Aberdeen 1169/km2

London 5701/km2
Birmingham 4200/km2
Manchester 4735/km2

But this is completely beside the point of whether NS is guilty (I think she's definitely guilty of something it's just a question of whether that is criminal or not)

Scottish and don't care, if she gets us to independence that's all I'm bothered about.

It matters enormously if the FM has lied to parliament.

If she has lied about this what else has she lied about?

Democracy is dead if she has lied and does not resign.

@Trichford

Scottish and don't care, if she gets us to independence that's all I'm bothered about.

What a depressing sentiment

Youcannot just to add: not only is London 50%+ more densely populated than Glasgow it also has a population of 8m+ before adding commuters as against between 600k and 1m for Glasgow.

Interesting stats for Glasgow versus Edinburgh. I hadn't realised how much more densely populated Glasgow is - may well be part of the reason for why it is by far the most impacted in Scotland.

@Dinnafashyersel yes, I suspect its at least part of the reason. Population density seems to be quite widely recognised as one of risk factors for spread.

@Trichford

Scottish and don't care, if she gets us to independence that's all I'm bothered about.

We should care if our first minister has been involved in a conspiracy

If it was a conspiracy against you would you care ?

@titsbumfannythelot to some maybe

@Trichford

Scottish and don't care, if she gets us to independence that's all I'm bothered about.

That's literally all you're bothered about?

That, rather depressingly, is my experience of SNP followers.

We must mix in similar circles @Bloodypunkrockers