Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care?

[sessell]

Evidence of a conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond has been building. There are compelling reports in the Times, Herald , Sky News and across the internet. But there is less reporting in Scotland and a lot of people seem to not know or care. I'm Scottish but I don't live there. I've been hooked by this as a story of power and corruption. I'm on the fence re independence, just don't know enough so don't have an axe in that debate. I've never been an SNP member. But I do care about justice and that no-one should be above the law, especially politicians when they are seeking to imprison their potential rivals.

After reading this affadavit from Craig Murray which brings it all together and is incendiary I'm pretty convinced there has been a conspiracy and that Sturgeon and her collaborators should face justice. Although the justice department (Crown office) also seem to be mired in this. Here is the affadavit www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/01/my-sworn-evidence-on-the-sturgeon-affair/

I've shown this to a few people and have been shocked that a couple have said, yes it stinks but I like Sturgeon. I'd be interested in the views of Scotsnet. How much do you know about this? Do you care? Is it OK for our politicians to imprison their rivals, like Putin and co do, if you like their other objectives. Has Scotland become a corrupt nation? Is that OK?

Just hit the point where Salmond says contact between Evans and complainer wasn't divulged even after a search warrant. So much wrong with that

@PresentingPercy

There have been changes to the way devolution works since then but it’s been somewhat stealthy. I don’t think the prosecution (Crown - Lord Advocate) has to be in the government and this could be changed. You cannot be prosecutor and in the government in any stable democracy.

You cannot have Government committees that cannot hear all the evidence. Salmond has been threatened with prosecution if he submits all his evidence. This threat must be removed. If necessary the committee hears evidence away from cameras. As courts do. Silencing people is not what a democracy does. All evidence should be heard without threats.

I love the idea that, should there be independence, Sturgeon will fade away!!! No chance. She’s got a ling way to fall before she goes anywhere. Where’s the challenge coming from? A single second party might become an opposition but no sign of it yet. She’s currently unassailable and with independence why would it change?

I really don't see how the structures can be fully developed and separated until Scotland is independent. Devolution Acts and the structure of British governance limit institutional change.

The problem with a lack of opposition is because there isn't a party that stands against the SNP BUT supports independence. When the majority are moving towards independence the other parties need to have a change of heart. Sadly, that's not going to happen any time soon.

That’s Alasdair Allen telt!

Who said anything about Sturgeon 'fading away'?

Your point was that the way things are, she could well be in position as a 'quasi-dictator' for the next 30 years due to nationalist sentiment in Scotland.

If Scotland was independent, every single person who is drawn to the SNP purely as a means to an end, i.e. Independence, suddenly no longer has this as a primary motivating concern. Would Nicola Sturgeon still remain in place as SNP leader? Who knows, it may be that she would feel she's done her bit and stand aside, but even if she remained in post, it would be as a leader of a party that is suddenly shorn of all the voters, members, activists, and politicians who only ever regarded the SNP as a vehicle to achieve Indi.

I am not a natural SNP voter myself. I never voted SNP in my life prior to 2007. I would seriously consider the policies of any left of centre or moderate party that should exist in Scotland once Scotland was Independent. I'm far from alone in this view, and while I believe the SNP likely would persist as a political entity post-Indi, I don't believe it would resemble anything like the behemoth it has become over the past 15 years or so.

What's the alternative in the meantime? That Scotland bumbles along with upwards of 50% of the electorate united behind the SNP, and the remainder split between the various pro-union parties, parties which will remain completely unelectable because they can never win the votes of more than 20-30% of the electorate?

It's not healthy, but it's not going to resolve itself by being 'more union' and ignoring the will of over 50% of the electorate. That's what's driving nationalism more than anything else. The unionists are painting themselves into an ever shrinking corner because of their pig-headed refusal to acknowledge that the constitutional debate is of crucial, defining importance to at least half the Scots electorate. Get it out of the way, clear the decks, then we can start with a clean slate.

What does she think she's doing?

She's cognizant of the fact that they only have Salmond in the chair until 16:30, so like any decent convener or chair should, she's trying to get the business of the day taken care of while it's still possible.

Permanent secretary.

Heavens

Not seen the document

Committe has asked twice. No document

Ms watt question taking 5 minutes 🤦‍♀️

AS telt her too.

Overtime coming up. Watts fault lol

This question is crucial. Salmond. Having to take a break. Said he is very keen to answer this.

Interesting question.

I am not convinced voters will move on if independence should happen. National parties are not just about independence. They continue with other policies. The SNP is essentially socialist so Labour is hardly going to flourish. I’ve seen an anti Independence Party mooted but clearly that’s not a vote winner.

I really think it’s not a great future if there is only one party getting votes because the opposition is split. Maybe Scottish people should look at a broader spectrum of policies when voting? Not sure why one policy is what drives voters. But it does! I see the same happened with Brexit.

Plenty of people in England would not care of Scotland went now. In the meantime the Scottish people have got what they voted for. But it’s pretty dire and yes, you have to live with it. The future doesn’t look rosy to me.

Salmond playing it well.

Independence if it comes after this will colour the way Scottish politics operates and not positively. Its naive to imagine the problems were caused by NS alone - its was the failure of the SNP to realise that its not the ballot box that matters but it matters how you get there, not just getting there.

Independence won’t clear any decks! Just look around the world. Those in power do anything to hang on to it. That’s what will happen in Scotland. A one party dictatorship. Slippery slope! The descent has started.

I don’t even know if this is about the SNP

This is about Scottish government and the way they handled or mishandled this case

Then the buck stops surely with the first minister ?

@PresentingPercy

Independence won’t clear any decks! Just look around the world. Those in power do anything to hang on to it. That’s what will happen in Scotland. A one party dictatorship. Slippery slope! The descent has started.

Well if that is on the voters really - bearing in mind that the only power the SNP had was over Scottish institutions, what did they think would happen?

I mean the SNP have pretty much failed to get any of the big stuff they need for independence and the greater powers they have are not used.

So that leaves a few institutions to play with, and no outside involvement over 20 years. A majority of voters at each election in Scotland appear to be really happy with that arrangement.

Omg. Murrell was on oath

At the end of the day all this is pointless really. The SNP lot on the committee are not going to agree to something that will cause NS to resign. Andy Wightman has shown himself to be absolutely pathetic recently so he'll most likely side with the SNP and that will be it over. Nothing will happen.

Could someone please please please in simple terms explain to me what it is Nicola sturgeon is supposed to have done? What is she potentially guilty of?

I'm racing up behind having skipped the various breaks.

The SNP really didn't send their A game to this committee did they?!

Jeez, it's all coming out now!

@ChancesWhatChances

Could someone please please please in simple terms explain to me what it is Nicola sturgeon is supposed to have done? What is she potentially guilty of?

Lying to parliament (breach of ministerial code) Failing to act on information that the government was acting unlawfully (allowing the judicial review to continue even though they knew the case was a bust) which would also breach the code There are then questions about why she was taken out of the policy, questions about competence/management of civil service and so on

Nothing there about veracity but I think that's broadly the main accusations

Beyond that there are wider accusations about a possible conspiracy with regards to the criminal case

It certainly is

I would lIKE to see the WhatsApp messages from murrell to FM

@StatisticallyChallenged thank you! I’ve tried following the news reports but none of them are very clear and articulate and don’t seem to go into further detail than “breaching ministerial code”. Though it could just be that I’m reading the wrong newspapers!