Does it matter if Sturgeon is guilty - do you know or care?

[sessell]

Evidence of a conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond has been building. There are compelling reports in the Times, Herald , Sky News and across the internet. But there is less reporting in Scotland and a lot of people seem to not know or care. I'm Scottish but I don't live there. I've been hooked by this as a story of power and corruption. I'm on the fence re independence, just don't know enough so don't have an axe in that debate. I've never been an SNP member. But I do care about justice and that no-one should be above the law, especially politicians when they are seeking to imprison their potential rivals.

After reading this affadavit from Craig Murray which brings it all together and is incendiary I'm pretty convinced there has been a conspiracy and that Sturgeon and her collaborators should face justice. Although the justice department (Crown office) also seem to be mired in this. Here is the affadavit www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/01/my-sworn-evidence-on-the-sturgeon-affair/

I've shown this to a few people and have been shocked that a couple have said, yes it stinks but I like Sturgeon. I'd be interested in the views of Scotsnet. How much do you know about this? Do you care? Is it OK for our politicians to imprison their rivals, like Putin and co do, if you like their other objectives. Has Scotland become a corrupt nation? Is that OK?

I was just looking at some older news reports to try and get my head round this timeline wise - I'll be honest, I wasn't paying all that much attention at the time. From memory, it was at the time of the #metoo stuff kicking off and so it just seemed like another famous/powerful guy who had abused women. So I'm actually looking back to refresh my memory/see what I missed.

An interesting "starting point" is this bbc timeline which dates from 2019; link, some of which we now know to be likely incorrect

It says ministers ordered the review in to the policies for handling harrassment complaints on 31st October. This was led by Leslie Evans. the guardian says in its reporting on the judicial review that "But Clancy told Pentland that MacKinnon and three other civil servants, including Evans, had become aware of the allegations from Miss A and Miss B in November 2017, two months before their formal complaints were lodged."

So the person who was leading the review which led to the creation of the complaints process did it in full knowledge of specific complaints.

The person who went on to lead the investigation was...Judith MacKinnon, who had already - by Sturgeon's admission - "given them “entirely legitimate” welfare advice and counselling"

So the complaints process was created by someone who knew about specific complaints, and then the investigation was handed to someone who had already spoken to the accusers and provided them with "welfare advice and counselling".

Whatever you think of the actual complaints, that is sheer bloody ineptitude. I know Scotland isn't the biggest country but surely we could at least have found some civil servants who were a tad more distant

It’s just all wrong.

It's just been on the news that NS's turn to give evidence has been postponed.

Got to be after Salmond...

If Salmond is was an awful sexual harassed male, you'd think everything would done to show that.

Salmond may be providing evidence in person after all, court case went in his favour - so NS appearance has been postponed, as she wants to (conveniently) be the last person to speak. There are reports of a multitude of lies. If proved, she is out without question.

I’m absolutely gobsmacked by what I read on the Wings page.

The current SNP - most of them are just thick as shit.

If proved, she is out without question

I'm just not so sure. The committee seems fairly ineffectual and so many people don't care.

I do however wonder if the tories are holding back on this for a reason - either they don't think much has really happened, they're waiting to let the committee and Hamilton report, or maybe waiting until nearer the election for maximum damage? I think (perhaps someone with better knowledge could correct me if I'm wrong) that parliamentary privilege would allow someone in the house of commons to effectively name the victims regardless of any injunctions that are in place - in which case it could be blown wide open via that route?

I thought the same thing myself stats, isn't parliamentary privilege how Ryan Giggs name made it into the public domain?

Murdo Fraser has been very vociferous, there must be a reason the rest are keeping their powder dry for now.

The Scottish parliament is not full of intellectual giants

@WouldBeGood indeed it is not. The cvs of the Justice and Finance ministers are a little lacking in experience of the real world.
Maybe what we saw when Joe Fitzpatrick stood up to speak and was less than impressive (I am being kind- he was also a minister so extra cash on top of his salary) shows why nobody wants to upset the applecart. They wouldn’t get jobs with those wages and expenses anywhere else!!

They wouldn’t get jobs with those wages and expenses anywhere else

No, not even close in some cases. But on the flip side they're at a level which won't really attract a lot of people who actually do well in the private sector. It's a gravy train for the wrong people

I haven't been following this Sturgeon /Salmond case closely but it seems rotten to the core.

I do wonder why Nicola gets such blind adulation when Scotland has some of the worst stats on health and education in Europe. The SNP has clearly not been good for Scotland.

Her Covid press conferences make her seem like an competent and assured leader, but it's mostly all spin and propaganda, trying to steal a march on Boris by having stricter and earlier lockdowns etc, and therefore paint herself in a better light. But the Covid stats from Scotland aren't that much better than anywhere else in the UK.

Added to that they are an authoritarian party determined to interfere in people's lives to an unprecedented degree, impose their ideology on children and eradicate free speech.

Both the named person act and the hate crimes bill are utterly chilling.

I think a lot of the unquestioning support of the SNP must be due to Anglophobia.

Yep, @Wildswim and a kind of Braveheart feeling to be “free!” With no actual plan or thought about anything except that.

Nowhere can I find actual hard evidence or concrete, costed plans to support independence.

That aside, I won’t vote for any corrupt politicians, no matter what party.

It's a gravy train for the wrong people

This is tragically so true.

How depressing.

I thought there wasn’t much in this at the beginning but the more that comes out the dodgier it looks
And NS looked seriously rattled when being questioned the other day

so NS appearance has been postponed, as she wants to (conveniently) be the last person to speak

Another reason why OP might be sensing a lack of general interest in this is the amount of rubbish spouted about it. It just turns most people off. Nicola Sturgeon doesn't get to pick when she appears. And anyway, looking at it logically - how would the enquiry be able to question her properly and thoroughly on the evidence before they'd heard it!! The enquiry is into whether there was a mishandling - how is Sturgeon meant to answer questions, or indeed the enquiry members meant to form proper questions, without hearing first the details of this alleged mishandling.
Nicola Sturgeon has consistently said she's happy to appear at the enquiry and answer all questions. It's Alex Salmond whose dragged his feet continually - trying to set out the conditions of his appearance etc - it looks like he's won a court order so, hopefully, he will now appear so his side of the story can finally be heard.

Her Covid press conferences make her seem like an competent and assured leader, but it's mostly all spin and propaganda, trying to steal a march on Boris by having stricter and earlier lockdowns etc, and therefore paint herself in a better light.

This comment would be hilarious if the situation wasn't so grave. Yes, I'm sure she tried to act quickly and decisively just as a pr exercise, not to try and save lives or anything.

Again, this is why the average person isn't engaging with this and why a certain amount of people don't care. The bile always shows through, doing nothing to help this argument of 'conspiracy'.

It's Alex Salmond whose dragged his feet continually

To be fair, his lawyers have basically said "he's ready and willing to appear but he can't tell the bloody truth if you won't accept his evidence" which is pretty valid when he's not even allowed to say who was present at meetings.

And NS looked seriously rattled when being questioned the other day
I'd imagine she's getting rattled at being asked the same questions over and over on a daily basis, which she keeps explaining she will answer at the enquiry - which any sensible person would if facing something as serious as having to appear before and be scrutinised by an enquiry.
Do people really expect her to spout off at every opportunity about evidence which is going to be put in front of official proceedings of this magnitude? Absolutely no-one would do that, it would be highly irregular would it not? Of course, the people shouting the questions at her well know this - but just keep on so they can keep on stoking up these 'evasiveness' and 'cover up' claims.
if there has been mishandling however, it will come out in the two enquiries. Of course, that will be an extremely serious situation.

Conspiracy or not there’s been some fancy footwork going on - no one could deny that. Please don’t tell me Nichola didn’t know about Alex and his penchant for cuddles. We all know about those sort of men . She like everyone else will have been aware of it for years .

Let’s not forget our taxes pay these people .

She deserves the continued questions. If she reduced the daily briefings then there'd be less scope to ask her questions.

@Wildswim very interesting post. The more I read about this affair, the more I get irritated by the way Murrell seems to think people are stupid. AS pops round for a 'chat' and he never asks his wife what it was about?! Of course he did and it would be natural for him to do so. So why lie?

@WouldBeGood

Yep, *@Wildswim* and a kind of Braveheart feeling to be “free!” With no actual plan or thought about anything except that.

Nowhere can I find actual hard evidence or concrete, costed plans to support independence.

That aside, I won’t vote for any corrupt politicians, no matter what party.

It’s that “ bought and sold for English gold “ line that gets them . It’s become a culture built on a persecution basis.

The Scots benefitted hugely from the Union . It opened up trading round the world and they were then foremost in building the Empire . They helped lead the industrial revolution and what huge benefits that brought to Glasgow and Edinburgh .

We are the smaller country ( population and less arable land ) and I think that it’s a bit of “ small man complex”

We now have another layer of government here which costs a pretty penny and has not delivered .

Similarly, we're supposed to believe an investigation was going on for months but nobody told her? Aye, pull the other one.

But that's the thing; why are they lying, constantly, about things which don't even seem to need lied about?

Always enjoy reading your posts “statistically”