Tracks of my tiers

[tinseltitsbumfannythelot]

New thread!

Morning all.

Maybe it's a perspective issue - to me at this point voting for the deal is not voting for brexit really. Brexit has happened. This is about approving or not approving this deal. It's not would you like this deal or EU membership, it's would you prefer to have this deal or not have it.

Part of democracy is accepting that you haven't got your preference and moving on to work with what the electorate chose whether you like it or not. I'm a staunch remainer but I'm also pragmatic, this is better than no deal and improvements can be made in the future.

To take a different example. Mr X, an MP, is in favour of the death penalty for murder and rape. A bill comes up in Parliament which will increase sentences for these crimes. He refuses to vote for it even though it would mean they wouldst be on the streets so quickly which is his preference- but he won't vote for it because it's not death. Principled, or cutting off nose to spite face?

You're misunderstanding - see attached table. 326 votes are needed to pass the deal (this is what counts as a majority at WM). The SNP vote does not impact the outcome. They know this, it's a vote in principle with no impact on the outcome AT ALL. Make sense now?

@WaxOnFeckOff

Well it does make a difference because its shoving a stick in the spokes because of sour grapes and an snp supporter talking about democracy is a laugh.

It's sticking a spoke in exactly nothing because the SNP vote in Westminster makes no difference. But you know that, you just wish they would shut the fuck up because you personally dislike them.

I'm not an SNP supporter, I've voted for every party over the years, apart from the Conservatives because I'm not a sociopath.

We aren't stupid, it's not about it changing the vote per se, it's about once again voting with a chip on your shoulder for the sake of it, not reflecting what is best for your voters, being an embarrassment on the world stage..

I'm fully aware of the impact of snp votes at Westminster. I still don't agree with their decision.

Yes I do personally dislike them and wish they would shut the fuck up but there are good reasons for that and I'm not alone. I can understand why folk vote for every other party including the tories except for the SNP.

@DontWalkPastTheCastle, brexit has been over and done with for ages. It is a matter of deciding what the next step forward is. the SNP being the SNP they oppose in principle and with any excuse anything that comes from the UK. In all honesty I stopped listening (and even barred news about NS in my Google news feed) because there is nothing to listen to, just endless whining.
Take this fishery business. I know absolutely nothing about it, but I do know that the Scottish government once has a bone in its mouth, no way is it EVER going to let go. The EU could have promised the seven seas for the sole use of Scotland, but that would have been no good in any case.

"Heck I only have to look at the number of non-resident cars in my street over the last few days to see that people are still socialising - just in their homes."

Stat I am noticing this too in my own street...folk just not caring and still having friends and family over to stay🤷

Really, you're calling tory voters sociopaths whilst lecturing another poster on disliking a political party?

[quote Arkadia]@DontWalkPastTheCastle, brexit has been over and done with for ages. It is a matter of deciding what the next step forward is. the SNP being the SNP they oppose in principle and with any excuse anything that comes from the UK. In all honesty I stopped listening (and even barred news about NS in my Google news feed) because there is nothing to listen to, just endless whining.
Take this fishery business. I know absolutely nothing about it, but I do know that the Scottish government once has a bone in its mouth, no way is it EVER going to let go. The EU could have promised the seven seas for the sole use of Scotland, but that would have been no good in any case.[/quote]
You just made that up 🤷🏻‍♀️

I tend to agree with @StatisticallyChallenged that the SNP's opposition to the deal is pure posturing at this point (and I love the McDonald's analogy, that is do totally it!). Leaving aside that in 2014 the SNP were perfectly happy to leave the EU, it's done now, we left in January. There is no 'remain' option on the table, independent country or not, because we are not currently part of the EU. The question on the table right now is do we accept the trade deal already ratified by all other EU countries or instead vote to reject the deal. Despite all their posturing about No Deal being a disaster, it seems the SNP would prefer that to voting with the Tories, which seems a bit childish frankly. Labour's position is much more principled IMO.

I'd also personally prefer it if the Scottish parliament didn't waste its time with symbolic debates and votes over matters that are outside its remit, and instead concentrated on doing a better job in the many things within its remit.

@StatisticallyChallenged

Really, you're calling tory voters sociopaths whilst lecturing another poster on disliking a political party?

I lectured nobody.

You know, I've been reading this thread for ages, but I never joined in because the stupid 'wee Nic' crap put me off.

And I was right! Shouldn't have bothered.

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us,
I'd also personally prefer it if the Scottish parliament didn't waste its time with symbolic debates and votes over matters that are outside its remit, and instead concentrated on doing a better job in the many things within its remit.

Now, you REALLY cannot be serious here :D :D

Don'twalkpast the vote is not a Yes to Brexit. It is an endorsement of the Deal following on from already having Brexited. The alternatives would be No Deal or continued prevarication and paralysis.

If you didn't like the irreverent tone of the thread, why join? There are plenty of pro snp, pro sturgeon, pro lockdown threads. It's fairly obvious that these are not it - I'd say they're fairly anti most politicians to be fair with piss taking fairly universal, and I think I've seen more posters defining themselves as politically homeless than anything else.

Good points about Glasgow and Manchester having the two biggest hospitals. Makes you wonder if people will look back and say centralising wasn't the brightest idea for infection control reasons.

It also means that people far and wide travel to Glasgow for treatment. Not to mention the many from the Glasgow suburbs / shires who also work in the QEUH.

I've heard of a woman in labour being transferred to QEUH by road from Oban. How horrific for both her and her birthing partner.

I’m a politically homeless one.

Ms Sturgeon is getting the must criticism as she is currently in government so her decrees are what affect us.

There is no opposition in Scotland.

I despise Boris et al too.

It's the usual isn't it? Someone posts pro snp stuff, other posters say they don't agree, then they post quotes or links to snp stuff, other posters disagree, then they say that everyone is horrible and they aren't allowed to post anything...

This is what happens when you post outside an echo chamber, people don't always agree maybe need another go at the college to learn how to persuade properly?

The S and NI Govs know that how they vote doesn't make a difference as the devolved nations are always outnumbered by English MPs but they are recording a vote against on principle.

The S and NI Govs do not get a vote at WM, not that the SNP Gov even hold an outright majority at Holyrood. In fact they are over represented at WM relative to their share of Holyrood. If they wanted to make a difference at WM they would work constructively with HM Opposition rather than seeking out grievance with them at every turn.

Biking I definitely think there must be a case to answer re infection control. The QEUH is all single rooms and yet it doesn't seem to have helped. Also, just given the geography of Scotland I think centralisation has to have its limits. How can it be correct to fully fund tiny schools while closing local hospitals? Schooling can be done remotely, as we are all finding - critical healthcare not so much.

I want opposition politicians who are useful, productive, who try to contribute sensibly. To me that doesn't mean just opposing tokenistically - especially with an issue like brexit where we've seen quite clearly that the tories in particular will not always vote together. Oppose meaningfully and purposefully when it is appropriate to do so. Support when supporting is appropriate. I feel the current snp stances represent some of the bits of politics I hate the most - one issue dominating, uncooperative, tokenistic and frequently just plain unpleasant as well as unrealistic.

Anyone know if there is a briefing today and what time it is?
Wasn't sure as its the holidays but was anticipating but nothing on BBC Scotland indicates there is!

I guess it depends on where you live, the gp would probably be the best person to ask.

That was an answer to a post further up

Agree Statisticallychallenged.

Just in the context of seeking to use the DUP stance to give cover to the SNP (interesting choice from the SNP college )
The DUP are still pro-Brexit. They are choosing to vote against the Deal because they would prefer not to have the NI protocol. This is intrinsic to the Deal and affects NI uniquely. It is something which could be renegotiated if the position in the Island of Ireland changes and so them setting out their opposition makes sense. Worth noting they are voting as the DUP not the NI Executive (just as SNP MPs are not Holyrood).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55470483

"Whilst we accept that this agreement does bring about zero tariff and quota arrangements between the UK and the European Union, thus removing many goods from attracting tariffs between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the fact remains that this agreement does not assist Northern Ireland in the context of having to operate under the Northern Ireland protocol."