October Becomes November Lockdown

[BlueThursday]

New thread

I suspect this will be the second of many

They have set up a huge marquee for society's to book and use ( I think numbers allowed are more because its education) Students can also book these spaces for events ( all socially distanced). My Dd is able to ballet ( only a few of them and wearing masks). The covid hygiene is very strict ( as it should be). She has 2 in person tutorials a week also.
This is much better than the voluntary lock down that came in to force on week 3 and panicked them all!! I am impressed with the inventiveness of the students themselves when it comes to having fun.
It's still not the uni experience it should be but it feels so much better that what others are experiencing.

I have a question, I don't suppose anyone actually knows but thought I would put it here anyway.

So our First Minister can't fund the business closures adequately, regardless who's fault it is (hers or Westminster) what would happen if these businesses just stayed open? I mean obviously with all their previous "COVID secure" measures in place? Surely there isn't enough police to stop it. So they issue fines and revoke licences etc that then leaves the councils with no revenue?

They lied about the 16 day shutdown across the central belt which I think everyone knew was going to be the case but what happens if business owners just say no sorry we won't comply. We will see you in court?

All of this relies massively on goodwill. I know about exponential growth but it's a virus that is what it does so surely with mitigation in place we just have to battle the storm and get on with it? Quarantine regardless where you travel from and test and protect identify outbreaks? We aren't strangers to storms here so surely we just go through it, do our best to social distance and wear masks and accept no large gatherings for a while?

Fund the entertainment and arts sector, concerts etc that can't open?

People are already ignoring the visiting rules what is going to be the tipping point?

It is a good question about compliance dolly. I don't know, but there was something on the news last night that in Glasgow it was the council that was going round cafes checking they were cafes and not sneaky restaurants masquerading as cafes. And issuing huge fines if they were deemed to be wrong . In that case it turned out the council was wrong and they were a cafe and allowed to open. But in a different situation I could imagine a council that didn't agree with its "tier" just refusing to do that, and as you say, you'd end up with the police needing to intervene and that could break down quite quickly. I think for businesses it would be really tricky to flout the law because they rely on the goodwill of all their customers now and in the future, some of who may agree with the law and some not. But for private citizens disobeying the household meeting thing, I really don't think very much could be done if there was widespread disobedience without a fair amount of civil unrest.

what happens if business owners just say no sorry we won't comply. We will see you in court?

Two places near us which are open through the day selling brunch, coffee, cakes etc and which stay open through the evening for main meals decided that they would stop selling alcohol, close at 6, and call themselves cafes. That wasn't good enough and they were told to close.

I did a shift as per usual in the charity shop yesterday and the manager told me that there was a "Covid Compliance Officer" doing the rounds. He was unable to tell me where this "compliance officer" came from, who was paying their salary and what exactly they were checking up on.

This is of course in addition to all the unofficial covid control officers (i.e. the general public), many of whom can't wait to tell volunteers what they can/can't be doing or what they should/could be doing differently. Everyone's an expert.

And yes I think there is going to be a point where retailers and hospitality business owners just hold up their hands and say NO MORE. That they will be wearing masks, taking track and trace details and keeping people socially distanced, but no more closures. It would have to be an organised campaign though with lots of retailers standing together in solidarity.

There are a couple of cafes in Glasgow have already (this week) taken Scottish Government to court, and been granted interim interdict to allow them to continue operating. SG have also been served with court papers by (I think) five hospitality groups who have collaborated on this.

So just watching this, places like soft play etc can't open until we are level zero? That will be the end of those businesses.

Good.

I;m thinking specifically of our lovely, local, family-run Italian, who completely revamped their restaurant during lockdown the first time, built partitions, booths, made it super covid-compliant but in a lovely way which made it comfortable and welcoming too.

They have had to close and are posting increasingly desperately about takeaways and home deliveries. They're really, really struggling.

I’m hoping Edinburgh will be in tier 2 given that infections seem to be coming down but I can’t see her applying different rules to Glasgow.

So there is no actual normal then?

I'm perfectly happy to visits restaurants etc, if other people don't want to then that's up to them, businesses should be allowed to open to see if they have any chance of enough business to make it worth their while.

They've implemented everything they were asked to and still got fucked over.

I hope they stop using health boards as the lowest common denominator and actually use council districts or something a bit more representative and not just restrict areas because they happen to be close to glasgow.

I actually thought there was going to be something different from the 3 tiers in England, but it appears tier 1 is back to normal, 2,3 and 4 are the same as 1, 2 and 3 in England and tier 5 didn't seem to get mentioned.

I hoped that, as my are has practically no cases, that we might be able to have some more noramality, but that doesn't seem to be happening

No Normal:

Level Zero is the closest we can get to normality without a vaccine or treatment. This is similar to what restrictions were in place in August when the virus had been suppressed. You could meet indoors in limited numbers (eight people from three households) and most businesses would be allowed to open.

The FM says Level One is more like the restrictions we had in mid-September. Indoor meetings were reduced to six people from two households. But still a "reasonable degree of normality overall".

Level Two entails restrictions similar to those in place now outside the central belt - there are limitations on hospitality and there's no gathering allowed inside homes.

Level Three is similar to what is in place in the central belt right now. These tougher restrictions include much of hospitality being closed completely. However, restaurants should be able to open at least partially.

However, Level Four is closer to a full lockdown. It will be used at times when the pandemic is putting pressure on the health service and running the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed. It would include non-essential shops closing. But even under these restrictions, there will be no limit on outdoor exercise, and six people from two households will still be allowed to meet up outside. The FM adds that manufacturing and construction will be kept open too.

Tier 5 didn't get mentioned because she starts counting at 0.

So 0 - no restrictions.
1, 2, 3, - same as England
4 - total lockdown.

Oh and 0 doesn't really mean no restrictions. It still means track and trace, wear your mask, socially distance, sanitise your hands, shops limiting numbers, lots of bleaching and sanitising the fuck out of everything.

Thanks @WaxOnFeckOff that's a useful summary.

So were there were hints of allowing restaurants to stay open under Tier 3 ?

@LizzieMacQueen

Thanks *@WaxOnFeckOff* that's a useful summary.

So were there were hints of allowing restaurants to stay open under Tier 3 ?

Yes she did say that but I can't remember specifically what!

Restaurants would be allowed to open indoors in tier 3 but with no alcohol served on the premises. Tier 2 would allow indoor dining with alcohol served and bars allowed to open indoors.

Alcohol could not be served indoors without a meal until tier 1.

Thanks WaxOnFeckOff my head is all over the place today, but that's a different story.

After all the hype it didn't really tell us much we didn't know already and didn't give me any hope of being able to look forward to anything any time soon.

I thought I picked that up too and so did some restauranteurs on Twitter. I hear what I want to sometimes so was glad it wasn't my imagination.

Summary is helpful Wax thanks.

I started listening, but realised I'd completely zoned out so gave up. Is there really no possibility of 'normal life' built into this framework that is to run indefinitely? Or rather, no normal life until we get a vaccine (which will probably only reduce symptoms and is unlikely to give herd immunity according to experts)? I can kiss goodbye to seeing the whole of my family at once for the foreseeable? How thoroughly depressing. Seriously.

I can't really take any credit for that folks, it was lifted from the BBC stream - I hope that it's right or you will all be forming a (socially distanced) line to smack me in the chops :o

I'm taking it that there is no chance of ever returning to a normal life, otherwise surely that should be level zero?

Didn't watch or listen but I guess this is also the end of the 2021 holiday season? We will probably be allowed a staycation but probably timed to not cover the summer...cynic moi?

So as far as I can see at some point after tuesday they will let people know which tier they are in. Shit again for hospitality who will want to preorder supplies in case they can open from the 2nd? Another weekend missed for them too . Also shit that we don't know how they are dividing up the areas, so if it's still health boards then rural parts are still fucked.

We can't even plan for any sort of staycation as it's likely to change at the drop of a hat. I'm not getting any younger and the whole thing is just utterly, utterly depressing.

@WaxOnFeckOff

I'm taking it that there is no chance of ever returning to a normal life, otherwise surely that should be level zero?

Didn't watch or listen but I guess this is also the end of the 2021 holiday season? We will probably be allowed a staycation but probably timed to not cover the summer...cynic moi?

So as far as I can see at some point after tuesday they will let people know which tier they are in. Shit again for hospitality who will want to preorder supplies in case they can open from the 2nd? Another weekend missed for them too . Also shit that we don't know how they are dividing up the areas, so if it's still health boards then rural parts are still fucked.

Wax She said the areas would be split by local authority rather than health boards. She also states that in theory there could be different tiers within the same local authorities.

Also shit that we don't know how they are dividing up the areas, so if it's still health boards then rural parts are still fucked.

I read somewhere it's going to be in collaboration with public health. We'll find out next week apparently. I'm so fed up and we're on the lucky side of the spectrum (income hasn't changed, dh's job is secure...although him working from home is killing our marriage).

One way to beat the lockdown blues is to go to some cool digital events - this one looks good for mums - it's the entrepreneur behind JoJo Maman Bébé. Might even be some discounts given... Free to attend too!

www.e2exchange.com/event/e2e-scaleup2success-with-laura-tenison-mbe-founder-managing-director-of-jojo-maman-bebe/