Glasgow, East Renfrewshire and West Dumbartonshire restrictions

[Ginger1982]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53989021

We absolutely need to live with this

We are living with it. This is what living with it looks like.

@SockYarn

if we do I'll tell them it's temporary

Is it? Because none of these new restrictions have been given an end point. It's all totally up in the air and if you tell your children that it's temporary that's untrue. It might be a fortnight, a month, until the New Year, 6 months, a year. Nobody knows.

Exactly. It’s been complete bollocks from the start with Boris and his “we’ll send Coronavirus packing in 12 weeks” garbage. To anyone that looked up how long previous pandemics had gone on for that was clearly complete shite.

@chocciechocface

We absolutely need to live with this

We are living with it. This is what living with it looks like.

But this is not sustainable. Society cannot function this way.

@SockYarn

if we do I'll tell them it's temporary

Is it? Because none of these new restrictions have been given an end point. It's all totally up in the air and if you tell your children that it's temporary that's untrue. It might be a fortnight, a month, until the New Year, 6 months, a year. Nobody knows.

No, nobody knows - yet. Nor do you. A lot of your concerns are future based. No one knows the future. But we know a LOT more now than we did six months ago. And in six months time we'll know even more. And so on.

Until then, we go day by day on expert advice.

Science is based on the evidence they do have, not what might or might not be. Every scientist I see being interviewed at some point says 'We don't know'. It's only the public who seems to think they absolutely know what is and isn't the right way to do things.

The initial lockdown was required, I don't think anyone really disagrees with that. However, we were told that there would be an adult narrative and that restrictions wouldn't be in place a minute longer than necessary.

My issue is that we aren't getting the appropriate info as part of the adult conversation and it seems that many more people are dying (not of covid) due to the restrictions than we are saving. I know that is hard to take if it's your family member that dies from covid, but at the moment other people are angry and upset due to family dying because they didn't or wont get treated in time for other things.

There is no evidence that anything we are or aren't doing is actually making any difference to infection rates and hospitalisation rates or death rates.

The balance is not correct in terms of managing the risk and impact.

I

Oh god yes, masks. I suppose the mask supporters will just say “oh we won’t know how many cases there would have been without them” but that’s just complete unprovable bollocks. If they made any difference at all I’d have at least expected a more gradual increase than cases rocketing within a few days.

"But this is not sustainable. Society cannot function this way."

Seriously, look at where we are now compared to where we were a couple of months ago. A couple of months ago people will also saying 'this is not sustainable'. Why can't people see the progress and believe more is possible as knowledge evolves.

Why does everyone think this situation, today, is long term set in stone?

Until then, we go day by day on expert advice.

The same expert advice that chucked old people in care homes to the dogs, causing around half the number of deaths?

I advice care homes at my work and they were shitting themselves about this as soon as it arrived in China. Meanwhile the government did nothing to help and instead made it worse.

So were the scientists I know shitting themselves in January. That's the expert opinion I value.

@chocciechocface

"But this is not sustainable. Society cannot function this way."

Seriously, look at where we are now compared to where we were a couple of months ago. A couple of months ago people will also saying 'this is not sustainable'. Why can't people see the progress and believe more is possible as knowledge evolves.

Why does everyone think this situation, today, is long term set in stone?

“Progress” means nothing when you lose your job because you have to keep self isolating every 5 mins for a fortnight. It was of course too much to expect that the government could follow up such instructions with protection from suffering detriment in employment or dismissal (I appreciate this is a UK matter)

@chocciechocface

So were the scientists I know shitting themselves in January. That's the expert opinion I value.

And what steps did the government who we are now supposed to trust implicitly to follow the science take then?

There's still plenty we can do though. Why not frame it like that.

My DC do stuff outdoors, even all winter. I can't drive and so they are used to it. As long as they are wrapped up it honestly does kids no harm. They have contact with their friends online.

We can still meet our families outdoors.

Remember how great it felt when we were allowed to see our families again even if outside and distanced?? Yes it was summer but so what who cares about the weather, it's not torrential downpour every day. We should hang on to that.

I read yesterday UK government are hopeful for vaccine early next year. They just started manufacturing millions of doses they paid for. I'm hopeful of that. There is also a new treatment in trials.

Coming back from the school run this morning, someone in my street was being taken by ambulance and the family followed behind in their car with their masks on. . I hope they are ok.

I'm getting scared, it feels just like mid March again.

There's still plenty we can do though. Why not frame it like that.

We can still meet our families.

Remember how great it felt when we were allowed to see our families again even if outside and distanced?? Yes it was summer but so what who cares about the weather, it's not torrential downpour every day. We should hang on to that.

I read yesterday UK government are hopeful for vaccine early next year. They just started manufacturing millions of doses they paid for. I'm hopeful of that. There is also a new treatment in trials.

Coming back from the school run this morning, someone in my street was being taken by ambulance and the family followed behind in their car with their masks on. . I hope they are ok.

I'm getting scared, it feels just like mid March again.

@chocciechocface,
I'm flinching at the words "damage control" because I read 'deaths' in there.
Those are not my words, but the BBC's. However, that is the first time in a long time I have read something sensible on the BBC.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54064339?fbclid=IwAR0q8ckWWwTdVy9zbJwrdfSySI-ha_W88j_IMzIeUozGUsk5-odMfFbXJ8M
It is indeed death; it will be death. There is nothing to be done as death will always be with us one way or another.
You were not flinching at the 10+K flu deaths every year (not to mention the much higher peaks) in the UK alone, were you?

Nothing comes for free. There was an article saying how deaths in hospitals and similar settings are now down from the yearly average, while the ones from places like the home are up, showing that very likely people are STILL not getting the treatment they need. I have also read another article saying how devastating the slogan "save the NHS" has been exactly for that reason. People were not going to A&E and are still not going (I was reading that numbers are still about 50% down).

Clearly these deaths don't make you flinch...

Nothing is free. You have just to decide what price you are willing to pay as an individual and as a society.

Madameblobby - I cant disagree with you. But I'm pretty sure when the government decided its approach it was balancing expert advice against what it thought voters would want or tolerate. I'm not a fan of either government. But had lockdown happened in January, the public would have probably gone nuts. I wouldn't have, because I have scientists in my family.

I don't really know what to say to you. From my perspective, as shit as things are now, I have no doubt they could get a LOT shittier in ways we can't even imagine. This is my lived experience: I come from a failed state.

And one person losing their job will seem trivial to another losing their father to a disease. Etc.

Bluntly, I suppose my view is 'It is what it is'. I can't change it. Nor can the government. The virus is like death - awful, ever present and uncompromising. I accept it. I accept my life won't be 'normal'. But I need to stay calm and sane for my family. I need to steer my children through this.

We are flat broke, my MIL is in hospital and we can't see her, DH is vulnerable, and worst of all, I may never see my family ever again (still in the failed state with no healthcare). I can't dwell on this. I need to just keep on keeping on.

I believe in the efforts my scientist family members are making - working their arses off to try find a way forward. I know how important this is to them and how committed they are.

@Namara

There's still plenty we can do though. Why not frame it like that.

My DC do stuff outdoors, even all winter. I can't drive and so they are used to it. As long as they are wrapped up it honestly does kids no harm. They have contact with their friends online.

We can still meet our families outdoors.

Remember how great it felt when we were allowed to see our families again even if outside and distanced?? Yes it was summer but so what who cares about the weather, it's not torrential downpour every day. We should hang on to that.

I read yesterday UK government are hopeful for vaccine early next year. They just started manufacturing millions of doses they paid for. I'm hopeful of that. There is also a new treatment in trials.

Coming back from the school run this morning, someone in my street was being taken by ambulance and the family followed behind in their car with their masks on. . I hope they are ok.

I'm getting scared, it feels just like mid March again.

Exactly namara, thank you for this. I suppose that's what I'm trying to say by looking at the progress.

And one person losing their job will seem trivial to another losing their father to a disease. Etc.

Or both could happen. I lost my job and while I didn’t lose my father he’s had cancer treatment stopped. Because the only thing this shoddy ineffectual government is focusing on is Covid.

Fair enough @chocciechocface but we all have the end of our tether. I’m just closer to mine than you are to yours.

I'm waiting for treatment too. I won't die if I don't get it, but I might die if I get COVID before I get the treatment.

What do you think the government should be doing differently?

Well explaining the rationale for decisions and a bit of transparency would be a start. Not politicising it the way Sturgeon has been.

In the case of the U.K. government half decent financial protections and actually briefing their population on even a semi regular basis.

I know it’s a shit sandwich and not easy but I am starting to have no confidence that any of them even have the remotest idea what they’re doing.

@MadameBlobby

Fair enough *@chocciechocface* but we all have the end of our tether. I’m just closer to mine than you are to yours.

I promise you madameblobby your tether is a lot longer than you think. I mean that in a very caring way.

Again, my failed state lived experience. People all adapt and eventually find a way through. With suffering? Yes, maybe. Easily, probably not?

But you will be ok. Believe that and believe in yourself. One day at a time.

Yes it was summer but so what who cares about the weather, it's not torrential downpour every day. We should hang on to that.

No. I'm not going to be grateful for perhaps a glimmer of hope that I might be able to see my parents in November, and perhaps sit freezing in the garden. There is nothing enjoyable in that, at all. Those small crumbs that the government is prepared to throw are no comfort at all. Stop trying to convince yourself that all you need to do is wrap up warm and enjoy the great outdoors! In Scotland! In winter when it doesn't get light until after 9am and is dusk again by 3pm!

It's back to the old story that nothing matters apart from Covid. All those folk losing their jobs because we're not allowed out and about - doesn't matter because it's not covid. All the people struggling with their mental health - doesn't matter if they top themselves because it's not a covid death. Cancer referrals plummeting by 90%? Great - more room in the empty hospitals for Covid. A whole cohort of students having their exams fucked up royally by the SQA - we protected them from Covid, even though there have been no deaths of people under 20 from it in Scotland.

Slow handclaps all round.

20 years down the line when the economy is still recovering, we face paying back the loans for another 50 years and we've all lost people to conditions like cancer and heart disease because they got the message not to bother the doctor, we'll be wondering what the fuck it was all about.

Thank you. It’s amazing I am still here tbh given I ended up on anti-d’s and beta blockers even before lockdown.

Right better do some work.

@MadameBlobby

Well explaining the rationale for decisions and a bit of transparency would be a start. Not politicising it the way Sturgeon has been.

In the case of the U.K. government half decent financial protections and actually briefing their population on even a semi regular basis.

I know it’s a shit sandwich and not easy but I am starting to have no confidence that any of them even have the remotest idea what they’re doing.

I think they probably don't know what they're doing some of the time. This is unprecedented. I'm glad I'm not in their shoes.

I can't say I've seen massive politicisation of it from the Scottish government - and I am NOT an SNP.

But, how about we both write to our respective MPs asking for better explanation of rationale and more transparency?

Coming back from the school run this morning, someone in my street was being taken by ambulance and the family followed behind in their car with their masks on. sad sad. I hope they are ok.

I hope they are too, but this in all liklihood has nothing to do with Covid. Or maybe it does, maybe they would have sought treatment earlier for something if not for Covid - i'm struggling to understand the point other than people who probably know each other are in a car together with masks on which seems bizarre?