When are we going back to school 2

[RaraRachael]

New thread as the last one was getting full. Feel free to discuss, moan, speculate on anything to do with Scottish schools and what may/not be happening.

We get the days back via LNCT. What pisses me off big time is in my LA there was no teacher consultation. We have just been told when we will get our 5 days taken from this year. It is the lack of consultation that is so annoying. We are grown ups. The ERG meeting minutes (when they eventually appear weeks after other COVID minutes) keep talking about the importance of communication with staff, parents and other stakeholders. Big fail! Interesting for those with children in secondary school that Fiona Robertson (SQA) hasn't found time in her busy schedule to manage the last few (minuted) ERG meetings. Too important perhaps?

@britINscotland

call it what you want, my point was that different councils are doing different things and this could cause confusion and anger amongst parents and teachers.

As I said above, BJ is saying Europe is at the start of a second wave. As Britain has been about 2-3 weeks behind Europe, if we see an increase, kids will all be back at school by then. Do they stay at school or do they get closed again just a few weeks into the new term?

Some are convinced it will be back to school full time all year. I'm much more pessimistic.

But different councils always do different things

Ah Fiona Robertson. Met her once (through work). Quite liked her. Although that was just the once that I met her.

Maybe different councils do holidays differently but a perceived extra week's holiday (I know it isn't extra to teachers), will not go down well if its not the same across the country.

how do we see the ERG minutes? Link pls

"those holidays are gone. There's talk of potentially getting them back in 2022
This doesn't make sense"

What I meant was NHS staff cant get their holidays back this year or even next year. They have been told they might get them added to holiday allowance in 2022 but this needs to be negotiated. But 2022 is a while away isnt it.

Yes, it is extra holidays to the op that asked because they're only going back part time first 2 weeks so they are 'losing' 5 days school in the first fortnight. Dc don't get those days back at school but teachers do get their holidays, so it leaves parents paying for that extra care or doing the home working juggle for longer. Honestly not blaming teachers for this, they ar entitled to their holidays, there's just been little thought from LA/SG of children's wellbeing and families in really difficult situations.

Those days at the start aren't holidays though for teachers, they are still in full time. I realise it is pants for working parents (I am one myself, I have zero childcare for the first insets and my normal option is shut)
I'm sorry about the delayed holidays you mention but can't you see it's unfair to talk as if those are gone in a different way to the summer holiday lost by school staff this year - I don't want that week next year (at a different time to my dh), I wanted it now when I was expecting it. We are also having things changed in ways we don't want, I'm glad they will be repaid even if it's not when we want.

East ayrshire are having an extra day off at the September weekend and finishing early for Xmas.

Invisimamma I appreciate your frustrations but it’s not just about holidays, it’s to do with term dates, school closure days, number of days in school for pupils and staff. You couldn’t have staff in one authority working more days in total than a neighbouring authority (or indeed pupils being in for more days), because of LNCT agreements for teachers across Scotland. All teachers work 195 days, pupils are in school for 190, in authority managed schools.

Another consideration is allocated time for SQA exams, although this is seen as nominal and does differ from authority to authority.

I think we are getting the week added to the start of next summer (we already get two weeks in October). I would have preferred at least some of it this calendar year (we don't get a September weekend, for example). It will be ok if I'm allowed to carry over a weeks holiday to next year's allowance, but otherwise an extra week next year will be tricky.

@lizzoflute I do understand that. But why is it OK for the children to get less days than a neighbouring authority ,as they'll be part time, neighboring authority isn't (as far a we know) , but that's not okay for teachers?
I just think under current circumstances it's not a great look for teachers to be so hung up on getting their holidays allocated elsewhere, where other public sector workers have lost weeks worth of holidays that won't be recompensated and children have also lost months worth of education.

I don’t view outdoor learning as a fad. I’ve been teaching for 23 years. When I started out I’d use any excuse I could to get outdoors. It’s great now that people recognise its merits. Brain gym, now that was a fad but outdoor learning isn’t in my book.
The nursery wouldn’t be out in high winds as that would be risk assessed unsure but rain would be fine.

Interestingly, SQA exam timetables for the next year are usually out by the beginning of June to allow schools to plan. We don't have the dates of the individual exams, or the general dates from and to. They usually end about 3rd June but there has been some talk of making them later. If they are moved on a month that will either mean schools adjusting term dates again, or SMT / some teachers having to stay in school to supervise.

I am quite surprised that those councils agreeing changes have said where they will put the holiday back without this key information.

Also, many schools build their calendar around coursework dates etc (including Easter / trips etc). There is so much information we need to be able to plan long term.

I just hope the statement gives us all the information. The scandal of the SQA response was that it was not subject specific. There was no detail for practical subjects - it was one size fits all.

I agree with others. Councils being left to do their own things just leads to inequity.

Which public sector workers have lost holidays without chance of them being returned?

Do you know what cis? The SQA could work around schools for once, instead of the other way around. (Cross with Sqa, not you)

School staff get paid for 195 days a year. That then gets divided by 12 and depending on your length of service you will get some holiday pay. So when my wage looks like £22,120 on paper that's if you work on a 52 week contract, on a 39 week contract it's £16,532 realistically!

I cannot see school staff agreeing to work for free. My friend who did a 12.5hr contract in the NHS got paid for her 37.5 hours when she upped her hours to support covid as she was a respiratory nurse so her ward was on full alert.

The SG could have offered to pay all staff for the week of holiday changed and then there'd have been no need to add one on anywhere.
Not surprised they didn't though!

I don’t view outdoor learning as a fad. I’ve been teaching for 23 years. When I started out I’d use any excuse I could to get outdoors. It’s great now that people recognise its merits. Brain gym, now that was a fad but outdoor learning isn’t in my book.

I'm in my early 40s and did most of my schooling in British Forces Schools abroad. We had loads of lessons outside in all weathers. At one school in Germany the local Botanical Garden was next door, it was considered an extra classroom for us and the neighbouring German school. It was particularly fun in the snow and just before the summer holidays.

britINscotland sorry I switched off from internet. CERG minutes are on the Scottish Government website. They are slow to be uploaded and some are still missing. I sent a polite e mail about a fortnight ago asking for sight of then missing (or wrongly referenced minutes) or request of copies as FOI. Suddenly a raft were published.
www.gov.scot/groups/covid-19-education-recovery-group/

Thanks for that link, those minutes are so brief - discussion about face coverings, for example, but no indication what anyone thought about them!

Our parents complain if the kids are put outside when there's a slight shower of rain so I before they would have something to say if they were doing outdoor learning is yesterday's relentless downpour.

I get that some of you like outdoor learning but you won't convince me. I'm almost retirement age and far too old to be doing that palaver.

invisimamma I agree completely that it’s unfair that pupils in different authorities, or even schools within the same authorities, have a different number of days in school. It’s really unfair. But I do think that public perception of ‘teachers’ as some powerful force controlling what goes on in schools is very wide of the mark.

Teachers have no control - head teachers don’t even have a lot of control. Our contracts are for 195 days - we have no control over that. I don’t know any teachers who are desperate to get missed holidays back - I work in an authority that is only losing one day but I know plenty who are losing more, and not a single one is concerned about it.

I know a lot of people are frustrated by their own conditions at the moment, and I have a pretty thick skin after 19 years as a teacher, but it is so wearing to compare public sector workers to each other. Teachers aren’t the same as nurses, nurses aren’t the same as firefighters, firefighters aren’t the same as police officers...it always comes down to comparison and teachers are often portrayed as greedy/work shy/get too many holidays anyway so get their lazy arses back to work. It’s very frustrating, it’s reductive, and it doesn’t help anyone.

I am desperate to see my pupils. I have missed working with them so much; only being in touch with them via email or google classroom has been awful. No teacher I know wants ‘blended learning’ - we can’t work that way and be effective.

However I also can’t fathom how I do my job when term starts again, and I am a bit wobbly about teaching upwards of 120 pupils a day, some of whom are much closer to adults than children. There are no winners in this situation.

As for outdoor learning, it’ll be nigh on impossible in secondaries but for the very limited way in which it already takes place (some physics experiments, for example).

It’s all going to be a massive leap of faith for pupils, teachers and parents.

gosh these minutes are shite. they tell us nothing.

britINscotland They do tells us when Ms Robertson failed to turn up. Hopefully she was busy sorting out what could turn into an exams fiasco. My secondary colleagues have no idea about next year's exam diet. I just have to worry about teaching my cherubs to read and write.

Can I ask where do people watch the announcements? I start watching on sky news but they never show the full thing

Freeview Channel 9 - BBC Scotland - shows the whole thing.