When are we going back to school 2

[RaraRachael]

New thread as the last one was getting full. Feel free to discuss, moan, speculate on anything to do with Scottish schools and what may/not be happening.

Yes there are going to be objections to any form of mitigation put forward - their child can't possibly not be able to refill a water bottle, or bring lunch in a bag - it contravenes their human rights!!! Etc.

Bloody hell @MumofHunter, I think I agree with you on something! I agree that parents need to take some responsibility for their children's welfare anyway. I joined the UsforThem group because I was very concerned about Blended Learning and very unhappy that all children were being treated as high risk when the government's own modelling showed that primary schools were low risk and nurseries essentially negligible risk. I thought and still think, that primary age children are safe to go back full time without distancing or masks etc. as this is what the science shows (and thankfully the government seem to have accepted this). I'm less sure about secondary school pupils because the science is more murky here in terms of their risk, and if I had a secondary age child I think I would accept some mitigating measures, perhaps wearing masks, particularly at the older end of the age range.

What they don't accept is that it won't be normal even if the children themselves aren't distancing. They will still need to wash hands more, cough into elbows instead of all other each other for example. But the big differences will be the distancing of staff - which will affect staff working together, for example with a TA in the class they will need to do a strange kind of dance to avoid each other. Assemblies and any lesson that involves an additional adult won't really work. Their teachers will be off more regularly rather than working through every cold. Collection of primary pupils will need to be adjusted to avoid too many adults standing together.
I suspect the group mentioned will "not put up with" any measures taken to protect staff.

I left the Us for Them group because some of it was ridiculous and downright dangerous.

I'm all for getting children back to school asap, but in a way that balances the risk to them and teachers. Councils and sg need to be throwing resources at it to make it work, which doesn't seem to be happening.

I suspect the group mentioned will "not put up with" any measures taken to protect staff.

I personally hope that schools will go back full time, but I am fully expecting that drop offs/pick up times will be staggered, I'll have to wear a mask, perhaps even sanitize my hands if I'm going in the grounds. That all seems reasonable to me and it's what I'm already doing at my other child's nursery. I expect that the school day might look a little different, and some of the resources will be removed. I do hope my primary-aged DC won't be expected to wear a mask; he's been fine in shops etc. but is a very quiet child and I think it would seriously impair his participation (which is already a struggle).

I haven't left the group but I have been feeling less connected with it recently, partly because there are some extremist views, particularly around secondary children going back, that I don't necessarily agree with. I don't entirely trust the government to keep to their word if the pressure is off though - I think they swing with the political wind.

I stopped looking after recognising one of the most vocal, aggressive and controversial contributors as a parent from where I teach.

With all this uncertainty and DDs waiting for results, the latest stuff coming out doesn't look good for them, I feel so worried constantly.

I do hope my primary-aged DC won't be expected to wear a mask; he's been fine in shops etc. but is a very quiet child and I think it would seriously impair his participation (which is already a struggle).

Same. Ds goes into p1 and he's really struggling with masks (which is entirely my fault, I have ptsd from trauma involving suffocation and attempted to desensitise myself which went badly...I nearly got sectioned). We've tried letting him pick one (has skulls and cats on it), encouraging him to go shopping with dh, showing him pictures of his aunt (dr) and my dad (military) in masks etc but nothing is working. He'll tolerate it in short bursts but wants to constantly remove/touch and won't talk to anyone other than dh if they are wearing one.

That Facebook group is "interesting". I'm fairly sure ds had to refill his water bottle at preschool. He can certainly manage at home.

The refilling is to do with a hundred children all touching the same water fountain buttons though. Maybe a parent could volunteer to come in and stand next to the fountain with some wipes.

@Mistressiggi

The refilling is to do with a hundred children all touching the same water fountain buttons though. Maybe a parent could volunteer to come in and stand next to the fountain with some wipes.

If kids are draining their water bottles by 9.20 am no wonder they need out to the toilet 8 times a day.

I'm still in that group but yes, its gotten way too political now.

I want schools to go back full time and I don't think schools are more risky than other workplaces.

I do however, struggle to see how social distancing and other mitigating measures will work in schools. Getting children to wash their hands more, wear masks, keep their distance is hard to do when you are a parent, but in a whole classroom I can't see it being easy.

It can also continue to impact their learning and participation. So I understand parents being resistant to any of these measures.

I don't understand how you can, on the one hand, be so desperate to get your child back to school but, on the other, refuse to consider any measures.

I also think primaries and secondaries are very different beasts, especially with the size of secondaries, numbers of pupils and risk. I don't think primary school aged children need masks, but a room full of seventeen years old is a different story. There was a documentary on BBC about the Italian hospital at the centre of it all. There was a boy who was 18 with no underlying conditions and he did recover, but was on a ventilator and very ill for a while. Very, very frightening.

Getting children to wash their hands more, wear masks, keep their distance is hard to do when you are a parent, but in a whole classroom I can't see it being easy.

You're right that it's not easy, but I don't think the correct response is to say uh well, don't bother then! I saw another video of a school in France where sinks were installed in the playground. That seems a great idea to me. It just takes money and time!

Schools not being more risky than other workplaces is interesting - clearly it depends on the workplace. Offices are not back yet for example.

I met a friend for coffee yet and she has been told that their office will in no way be back this side of Christmas!

And it also bears repeating- adults can wash their hands and aren't generally liable to pick their noses in public, wipe their snot on their colleagues' sleeves etc

I also don't understand why going back to school has to be so black and white. There is a huge range of options between home schooling and business as usual. Also the kids are between 4 and 17, surely we don't need to all treat them the same...

I feel like either the politicians just don't understand education and parents needs or they have no imagination. Also they seem to think that they can get away with no extra investment into infrastructure and teachers. Surely if we are paying people to do nothing for months we can build some sinks, hire a few extra teachers and build some good remote learning facilities for the older pupils who can navigate them independently. Having high quality pre recorded lessons could even be useful if we go back full time.

@Y0uCannot Yes we agree! Shocker 😉
I definitely think the home learning part of blended learning should be centralised and had thought I'd read somewhere that it was going to be but could be wrong. I think we'll go back to 5-14 style curriculum on the back of this.
Sorry you're so anxious @Lidlfix, must be hard if children are in an important exam year. Hope it works out well.
Well you've all made me feel better as thought I was the only one shocked at the UsForThem political and general bonkers posts!
Let's hope Thursday's announcement is clear and follows the science on keeping children and teachers safe and in school as much as possible.

I came off that fb group a while ago as I didn't want to be counted as a supporter. They make a lot of the numbers so it's wise to do this I think if you aren't in agreement.

Callisto there's something like £850m being used for extra teachers.
You're right regarding increased infrastructure. I still feel outdoor classrooms or at least making use of any nearby premises like community halls should have been done. This was in the document sent out before the summer so maybe councils have been looking at this? Who knows.

@MumofHunter I didn't know about the extra funding for teachers. That's really good news.

Outdoor learning might work for some of the younger primary children I guess if the school has access to some decent open space.

I'm not so sure about using nearby facilities like community halls, libraries, church halls. The teachers would have to bring all their materials and it might be a nightmare to coordinate. If we're talking primary children someone would have to bring the children to the place and pick them up and you'd have to have enough staff to make sure no child wanders off. Maybe ok for older ones or secondary for some subjects? I only have practical experience with little kids and can see this could.be tricky.

Outdoor learning brings a lot of logistical problems.

The first is the weather, obviously. You can't have them outside all day if it's hot, or if it's bucketing down. It's not fair to say 'bring waterproofs' because some just do not own them. Then there's the wind, wasps, the police sirens and LOOK IT'S MY AUNTIE walking past the playground to distract them. Then someone needs the toilet.

I think community facilities is an interesting idea. I'd do it for P4-upwards.

@MumofHunter do you have a link to the extra £850m for teachers? I can only find reference to £50m of funding and 850 teachers to be recruited by next month which seems a bit tight! (although with around 5000 schools in Scotland I'm not sure how much of an impact that will have anyway).

Thanks MumofHunter it just feels like such a long time of being slated and having (as so many parents do right now) real worries about their DC. In a week's time I might be dealing with DD3 not getting into uni and DD4 not getting the 5 A,B passes she needs to apply for Law next year.

Add into that my concerns that we are going back all and with nothing. Again, I know that's not just me.

I realise that groups like usforthem aren't representative of all parents - but still makes for unpleasant reading when the frenzy sets it. Will it be our email boxes they want to fill next? Will there be a template to send to teachers who wear masks or who attempt to observe physical distancing?

It's a rainy Monday and I just feel crap.

I realise that groups like usforthem aren't representative of all parents - but still makes for unpleasant reading when the frenzy sets it.

The facebook page membership (8.8k) is just over 1% of children (~700k) in scottish schools, less when you assume most children have two parents/maybe grandparents have joined too, some will have joined just for noisiness. They are such a teeny tiny, but unfortunately vocal minority. Probably less than one parent from all the pupils you teach!

Must really stick in their craw that it didn't take off as most parents have a more sense. Not worth the head space.

True Wings and thanks for helping me get a bit of perspective . Thursday will come and we'll find out and me brooding won't change anything. I have great colleagues and genuinely good pupils and that's where my energy is going. Tuesday will come for DDs and whatever comes of that we'll deal with.

I think a lot of them will be great at sounding off in their own echo chamber online but not quite as keen to put their money where their mouth is Lidl.

Are results tomorrow? Good luck to your DDs and you!

Next Tuesday, mostly they put it to the back of their minds but I can see their eyes clouds usually if something is mentioned on the news.