Nicola Sturgeon on Andrew Marr

[user1487194234]

Supposed to be going on short holiday to England next weekend.

Have just watched NS talking about possibility of closing the (non existent) border between Scotland and Enland if the 'risk' goes up

Should I be concerned/cancelling ?

Nah mate. But binge-watch old episodes of eastenders to perfect your accent should you be stopped by the non-existent border control.

I honestly don’t see how NS could close the border with England even if she wanted to as we’re all one country with no restrictions/controls on movement whatsoever.

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us umm you do know Scotland is a different country to England or Wales? We are not all in one country ....

[quote zaffa]@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us umm you do know Scotland is a different country to England or Wales? We are not all in one country .... [/quote]
We're all the UK. Whether you like it or not.

Sorry I hope I didn't sound ridiculous

Even if the border was to close it's not going to happen without at least a few days' notice. I mean, they gave notice for mask wearing, for lockdown, for schools closing, etc.... because people have individual circumstances which have to be taken into account.

We may all be part of the United Kingdom but we're separate countries within it.

@zaffa We are one country (the U.K.) recognised internationally by the UN, EU and others. Look at your passport; it’s the same whether you are from Scotland, England, Wales or NI, whether you like it or not. There are no internal borders that restrict movement.

By the UK is not a country? I mean there are four separate countries that make it up, regardless of whether there are active borders in place. Each country has a border it's just not enforced. Surely everyone knows this?

@zaffa

By the UK is not a country? I mean there are four separate countries that make it up, regardless of whether there are active borders in place. Each country has a border it's just not enforced. Surely everyone knows this?

The UK is politically and economically a country with one head of state. The borders are little more than county borders.

People hate Scotland on the Scotsnet board Zaffa. Scotland can't and shouldn't protect itself in case England is offended. In fact we have the exact same levels of infections and deaths if you look at the numbers through a magic looking glass and squint slightly. No border issue therefore required.

Richard Osman needs to come on and say, 'By country, we mean a sovereign state recognised by the United Nations'.

The internationally recognised nation state is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as shown here. England, Scotland, Wales, NI are not internationally recognised states in their own right (which is the basis for the Brexit controversy; Scotland as a part of the member state, the UK, left with the rest of the UK). I’m amazed anyone in possession of a passport, or who has even vaguely been following the news for the last 4 years, could be unaware of this.

@sonicbook

People hate Scotland on the Scotsnet board Zaffa. Scotland can't and shouldn't protect itself in case England is offended. In fact we have the exact same levels of infections and deaths if you look at the numbers through a magic looking glass and squint slightly. No border issue therefore required.

Apologies. I was just responding to the suggestion that Scotland could somehow close borders with England.

“People hate Scotland on the Scotsnet board Zaffa. Scotland can't and shouldn't protect itself in case England is offended. In fact we have the exact same levels of infections and deaths if you look at the numbers through a magic looking glass and squint slightly. No border issue therefore required.”

Could we tone down this kind of bollocks please? It is a fact that most of England has similar infection rates to Scotland and that excess deaths per head of population are in the same ballpark, just as it is a fact that the U.K. is all one country. No one ‘hates’ Scotland, and no one has said anything about being worried about offending the English (or fellow Brits as I prefer to see them).

@sonicbook the funny thing is I don't even live in Scotland (and I wasn't born in the UK at all so I have no boat in this race) yet there seems to be some sort of assumption from the comments that I'm pointing it out because I'm so anti English and pro independence.
I don't know why people are so desperate to pretend all four countries are the same place. Some have different languages and have handled the pandemic differently with different outcomes. Being part of the UK doesn't mean you don't also get to be a separate country - the borders are clearly there even if no one is enforcing them and it seems a bit blind to pretend otherwise?
Although I do agree with you - each country has every right to protect themselves as best they see fit. England would have probably faired a bit better in this pandemic had it had Nicola leading it ...

Okay doke. It's just weird because all your posts seem to be about ensuring that everyone knows that Scotland is just as bad as England and expressing great frustration that people might think that's not the case. Personally I think that's bollocks.

It’s interesting. Regardless of the border, she has a point when she brought up Melbourne and New York. You don’t have to be in a different country and it makes sense to me if Scotland (as it sounds) are doing much better than England in keeping rates down. I don’t know how it will be policed though, I guess how Melbourne / New York are doing it?

@zaffa Love your phrase “ no boat in this race” ..going to use that! Although some is bound to come on here and accuse you of bringing race into it....

Sorry guys. Despite what the numbers might suggest Scotland isn't actually doing a better job as some have been exceptionally keen to point out. If you look at the numbers in a certain way we are actually in the same 'ballpark' whatever that means.

Yep. Across the world there have been many examples of regional lockdowns ... in fact I'm Leicester I'm pretty sure they were given a certain mile radius for travel.

When it comes to Scotland though people are tripping over themselves to screech 'there is no border' 🤣

@sonicbook

Okay doke. It's just weird because all your posts seem to be about ensuring that everyone knows that Scotland is just as bad as England and expressing great frustration that people might think that's not the case. Personally I think that's bollocks.

This was directed at serious not zaffa

hating the SNP and SNP policy is not hating Scotland.

The SNP and their supporters do not 'own' Scotland, nor do they own the saltire. Disagreeing with a blatantly racist, anglophobic, shit stirring first minister does not mean we hate Scotland. Yes I stand by all of that.

Will the Queen of the entire UK be banned from entering Scotland? Will the president of the USA, or president of the EU be banned if they go via England first?

Will all the SNP MPs be banned from returning home from Westminster?

Course not.

@sonicbook My point, on this thread anyway, is that I don’t think it is possible to impose border controls between Scotland and England because we are all one country. If this is possible, and not just political posturing, I’m happy to be corrected.

On my other thread regarding the criticism from the statistics watchdog (which I assume you are referring to), I am very frustrated that statistics are being misused (not my opinion, the UKSA has concerns) to set up an artificial difference between England and Scotland. If you’ll reread that thread you’ll note that it wasn’t actually me who pointed out that excess deaths (the most reliable measure) are in the same ball park, but it does remain the case. I am glad that infections are falling, and have stuck to the guidelines, even the ones I think are stupid. If I am frustrated about anything it is the blatant politicisation of the situation, othering of Brits elsewhere in the U.K., and seeding of even more division. I am also frustrated at my seeing myself as Scottish AND British being presented as hating Scotland and wanting to be subservient to the English.

Well of course localised travel bans could be imposed (see Leicester) - whether they could be enforced or not is another matter. Nothing so far has been 'properly' enforced as such.

Yes on the other thread you pulled out stats to suggest Scotland was doing just as badly as England. Other people / newspapers pulled out stats to suggest they were doing better. A poster pointed out that stats can be manipulated to fit any narrative. It's all just political point scoring.

I'm not a natural SNP voter but I cannot get my head around posters, Scottish posters, who look at NS and then look at BJ and clearly think yeah I'd rather him and then set out trying to prove how Pisa everyone at Holyrood is.

"The Scottish Government runs the country in relation to matters that are devolved from Westminster. This includes: the economy, education, health, justice, rural affairs, housing, environment, equal opportunities, consumer advocacy and advice, transport and taxation."

I don't see defense (eg army) mentioned anywhere, so who will control this non existent border? Speaking of which, I don't see border control mentioned anywhere either, because it isn't devolved.

Transport maybe - are the lovely office staff at transport Scotland going to close the roads? What about people who walk over a hill or swim across the river?

Education is devolved - are we going to write some lovely signs saying 'piss off' to show that their is a border when it comes to educational provision?

Or do you think Police Scotland should control the invisible border, which is out of their remit, instead of....I don't know....stopping crime?

And lets not forget there are many many Scots living in England, and English living in Scotland, and people who travel out to eg Newcastle or inwards to Edinburgh for work!

utter fannies

Wasn’t Wales enforcing a ‘border’ during the middle part of the lockdown though?