Nicola Sturgeon cracks me up.

[Merename]

Just read an excerpt from her address today. I know not all of you will love her and I don’t think coronavirus has been handled perfectly, but she is an intelligent and likeable example of Scottish people, imo. I love the way she is dignified and avoids politicising everything, yet still is direct enough to comment on how ridiculous Boris can be:

Tom Gordon, from The Herald, points out that, in the prime minister's speech this morning, Boris Johnson emphasised the role of the union, calling it "an incredible partnership" that proved its worth during the pandemic. He asks what the first minister's response is considering she would like Scotland to be independent.

"Boris Johnson and I are very different kinds of people, very different personalities and I would, in a whole range of ways, choose not to emulate him and how he speaks and how he behaves and I'm sure he would choose not to emulate me in many respects," Nicola Sturgeon replies.

"I don't think you'll catch me very often leaping to the floor to do press-ups during a media interview, for example.

"In terms of the wider and future arguments about Scotland's constitutional future, people will make their own minds up on that and draw their own conclusions and part of the process they will go through is watching how the Scottish government conducts itself and how Boris Johnson conducts himself.

"My focus is on tackling this virus and any leader should have that as their central focus."

I've just listened to the 12.30 briefing and the D&G outbreak is continually referred to as a Cumbria and D&G outbreak and a cross border outbreak - I think there's 1 case in Cumbria and the rest are in D&G, so there's definitely a bit of spin going on there!

@Defenestratethecat

I have relatives and friends in Dumfries who work in the NHS ICU, the D&G ambulance service and also the local authority, and every one of them say the FM is definitely lying about the number of cases and where the cases are.

@Nyx I agree with you
@nextslideplease apologies -it was babdoc who posted about doctors.

My dc are university educated and well informed politically . They may lack life experience but myself and dh do not. We have postgraduate qualifications and worked in professional jobs. We have plenty of life experience and would vote for the SNP and Independence. You cannot speak for other people. Please provide evidence for your claims for the type of people who vote for the snp.
Nicola has undoubtedly got things wrong , and the government is far from perfect . But she has managed this crisis far more intelligently than Westminster , and I believe she listens to her scientific advisors - who actually seem sensible. Boris is dependant on Dominic Cummings. His advisory group is heavily dominated by modellers and behavioural scientists and lacks key disciplines . There is political interference .
His communication skills are dreadful, there are frequent u- turns and he announces policies but gives no notice for planning to happen. He opens pubs on a Saturday !
So the criticism of his government is entirely justified and completely separate to any views about Nicola .

The fact you are too lazy to do your own research into who votes SNP proves my point really. But if you really must know my sources:

there's John Curtice, - What Scotland Thinks

There's the house of commons library

Joseph Rowantree foundation

Holyrood magazine

The Scottish Referendum Study

and the open university

and its also interesting that those areas with the highest votes for independence had the lowest turnout.

Wow . Lazy . So not being vitriolic in any way .
I did do some research journals.openedition.org/lisa/7008?lang=en
You have made a list . Happy to be converted to your view - if you link the actual paper they have produced . And not about the referendum - about the demographics of Snp voters .

I repeat - you're lazy. Not only can you be bothered to find my (unbiased) research sources (which come up immediately if you are familiar with how to use Google), the single research YOU are quoting is from someone who has previously been employed by the SNP government!

I know Edwige Camp. I also know John Curtice. I know who is more of an expert of the two.

Lucky you . I do admire john Curtice who I would admit is an expert in his field .

I don’t admire someone who knows nothing about me and says I am lazy . If you are so expert you would have no difficulty posting the exact Links you are referring to. As I said - I am happy to be enlightened. Maybe I am crap at google . You made the claims

And your post of 11.33 didn’t make sense .

And wax ridiculous

@Srictlybakeoff

And wax ridiculous

??

Wax . Meant was. Getting too worked up which is not good

@Srictlybakeoff

Wax . Meant was. Getting too worked up which is not good

Okay, wondered what I'd done now....

As I've said in PPs, I am qualified in Scottish History and Scottish Politics. I've worked for the Scottish Government. I know many politicians across all parties both in Scotland and Westminster. I've sat on many SG committees. I do a lot of research in my work and my study.

It is laughable that you are trying to out-do me! You are asking me for links and not realising that by doing so, you are proving my point about SNP supporters! If you had done proper research on the party before choosing to support and defend, I wouldn't need to mention this information because you'd already know about it.

Bored now. Go and bleat to your 37%.

Oh dear. How depressing. I keep on checking in on this thread and no knowing exactly where to start, and not having the energy to bother! It feels really sad to me that we are so divided, and how angry people can get about it. I agree with whoever said, we can assume that everyone wants the best for Scotland and other Scottish people. I think that Scotland has a tendency to a more left-leaning, socialist politics. I work with deprived people and they are often some of the most generous people out there. I genuinely believe that many people voting on lower incomes are doing so because they see the inequality championed in Westminster and feel shat on. I know I do, and I am another of those highly educated, professional yes voters. I also have plenty life experience. I think the stats quoted about the demographics of voters are correct, but some of the assumptions about why those groups vote how they have, are debatable.

But anyway I know that No voters just have a different opinion. I don’t hate you for it. I also don’t agree with all of SNPs policies. I do struggle to understand the NS hatred though, I see reasons to disagree, but don’t get it. I think Boris is completely ridiculous and dangerous, but I don’t even hate him!

If any of you were in George square in Glasgow the night before the referendum, it was the biggest love in, it was really a beautiful occasion. I’d challenge you to be there and still have the hate. Anyway now I’m ranting about love ins. Hope you understand what I mean. Let’s be pals.

I may not have a degree in Scottish History and Scottish politics but I do want what’s best for Scotland. And I am happy to listen to an opposing view if that is not just saying that criticising the Uk Governments response to this crisis is because I am part of some “cult” that supports Nicola. I think she is an able and intelligent politician who has managed this crisis much better then the UK .
I have some difficulties in terms of the research I have tried to do In terms of separating the demographics of SNP voters in different elections and the results of referendums. I agree - why should the views of younger people or more disadvantaged people count less. Younger people will have to live much longer with any decisions made.

I think Boris is dangerous - he doesn’t understand or care about the clinical complexities of this situation.

Ultimately I don’t want to argue. Other folk have perfectly respectable opinions different to mine. Please just don’t disrespect my ability to form my own

Funny thing is I thought politicians were democratically elected representatives of the people.

Can’t remember the last time NS represented the people of her own constituency.

All she does is stand at her wee lectern every day and get us telt.

As for not politicising the situation... now that really does crack me up!

My criticism of Nicola is nothing to do with support for Boris. I do not support him at all. Never voted for him, never will.
As I said above, being a better leader than Boris Johnson is not an accolade.
My criticism of Nicola is of her and her party in its own right. It’s not a comparison exercise.

Merename, it’s not a hatred of NS that plays badly to those who aren’t fans, it’s the sanctimonious, moral supremacy, po faced regime over which she presides.
The idea that Scots are ‘better’ or special’.
Do you see that if you substituted Scots or English for other nationalities, religions it would be totally unacceptable?
Yes, there are some cultural differences but England is not the sum total of Boris Johnson and I very much resent the thinly veiled anti English rhetoric.

I hate this pitching the young against the old in terms of voting.

I think it's a rare being in the thinking population of parents and grandparents (also aunts/uncles etc) that doesn't try to consider and do what they think is best for their children and grandchildren.

Undoubtedly there will be selfish folk out there and people who don't research or think through but the beauty of it all is that you don't need to pass any tests to be allowed to vote. One person, one vote, whether you are a 80 year old ex politician or an unemployed young adult from a family where no-one has held a job for generations, they both count the same. I could be cynical and say it's easy to vote for who promises you more without the worry of having to pay for it but it's hard when you've not been brought up like that.

What we should be aiming for is equality of opportunity not trying to achieve equality of outcome. We need to protect the vulnerable mainly both from covid and from the evils of poverty and exclusion and lack of opportunity. I'm a socialist at heart but don't trust SNP. They don't make clear that things have to be paid for.

Not that thinly veiled @BusyDreaming. Even Billy Connolly pointed out that he had more in common with an ex shipbuilder in Newcastle than he did with many of his fellow Scots.

I'm Scottish and my family have always been from Scotland as far back as I can trace but I don't have any issue with anyone's nationality, everyone gets split into either decent folk or not ime

Busydreaming, I didn’t say (or think) that Scots are better or special. Or that I am anti English in saying Boris is mental Or maybe you are saying NS believes we are special?

I disagree. I think the aim for most Yes voters (those that I know - almost everyone I know, to be honest) is to enjoy a more equal, socialist society. The desire for the rich to hold the majority of the wealth is just less prevalent here. It exists for some of course, but I think many people here want to share the wealth. Personally I would be happy to be poorer in a more equal society. For me SNP isn’t nearly socialist enough, but that can hopefully be worked once if we got independence and greater control over our own destiny.

I don’t think these cultural differences make us more special, but I do think we have the right to express our culture and should have more control over our politics, for better or worse.

How do you not express/ celebrate Scottish cultural differences already?
The Scots are happy to welcome English, American, rest of the world tourists to Edinburgh, in particular, some of whom ( whisper it) will have voted for Trump and Boris Johnson.
The Scottish economy depends on the American dollar and English tourists and yet, Scotland has an administration who refuses to welcome Trump and treats Westminster with disdain
Despite what most of us think of Trump or Boris Johnson, it’s interesting that because Scotland is not independent it can afford it’s ‘ moral high ground’ because it’s still part of the United Kingdom.
In the event of independence, the stark reality of going it alone may be somewhat different.
As for a more socialist perspective, making people more dependent on the state when they need not be, is not a desirable society.
I’d prefer to support those that really need it and that requires entrepreneurs, a successful economy and a thriving education system.

Because we are ultimately governed by a political party that barely anyone here voted for. That limits our cultural expression because we have to live with decisions many people did not ask for. Leaving the EU being one (I am not personally keen to rejoin the EU, but it’s an example of how our wishes and cultural tendencies have been limited.)

I don’t see a socialist perspective’s aim being to make people more dependent, but to make things more fair and equitable, so that everyone can be happier.

I’m not sure I follow your points about Trump etc. I think we can welcome any nationality but have serious concerns about their leadership. Why that has to be ‘moral high ground’ I am unsure - in fact I think NS is better than many politicians at acknowledging mistakes or lack of knowledge.

Away to bed now, goodnight.

And that’s where the debate needs to get to on the economy - fair play to those willing to be poorer for more equality (even if they believe it’s for a time) and for independence - you rarely hear this level of honesty in the debate from the pro Indy side.

If there were some concrete plans about spending that made sense it would be easier to have some confidence in the SNP, all the nebulous denials about the spending gap etc leave a feeling of no confidence.