Nicola Sturgeon cracks me up.

[Merename]

Just read an excerpt from her address today. I know not all of you will love her and I don’t think coronavirus has been handled perfectly, but she is an intelligent and likeable example of Scottish people, imo. I love the way she is dignified and avoids politicising everything, yet still is direct enough to comment on how ridiculous Boris can be:

Tom Gordon, from The Herald, points out that, in the prime minister's speech this morning, Boris Johnson emphasised the role of the union, calling it "an incredible partnership" that proved its worth during the pandemic. He asks what the first minister's response is considering she would like Scotland to be independent.

"Boris Johnson and I are very different kinds of people, very different personalities and I would, in a whole range of ways, choose not to emulate him and how he speaks and how he behaves and I'm sure he would choose not to emulate me in many respects," Nicola Sturgeon replies.

"I don't think you'll catch me very often leaping to the floor to do press-ups during a media interview, for example.

"In terms of the wider and future arguments about Scotland's constitutional future, people will make their own minds up on that and draw their own conclusions and part of the process they will go through is watching how the Scottish government conducts itself and how Boris Johnson conducts himself.

"My focus is on tackling this virus and any leader should have that as their central focus."

There's always sneering on mn at any mention of the snp and the FM.
I can't understand why the rest of the UK wants to hold onto Scotland when we are held in such contempt.

Most of the very successful people with degrees in Economics from Scottish universities with whom I’ve come into contact, are all working in investment banks in London.
That may account for the utter dearth of talent in Scottish politics and in particular the SNP.

More contempt..

No not contempt, disappointment and frustration, yes.
It’s beyond me, why no criticism of the Scottish govt is allowed.
If you want an independent Scotland, presumably you want it to succeed.
If you don’t want an independent Scotland but in the event of another referendum, there is a Yes vote, then you also want Scotland to be a prosperous, economically viable country.
That involves holding up a mirror and reflecting on all the positives but also where things are going wrong and one of those questions is why so many incredibly bright and capable Scots have left and found success elsewhere.

The best legislation, the best policies, the best processes, the best of pretty much everything really is formed where there is effective challenge and consultation. Therefore there is a level of robustness built on the things that are put in place where challenge has been made, thought about and where this effects change.

The problem with current politics and the lack of talent therein, the snp policy of not allowing dissent, and the structure of the Holyrood system. This means that it doesn't allow or operate effective challenge. Not all of that is the SNPs fault to be fair. A lot of it is though and the way that they shut down any sort of challenge is really disturbing and somewhat sinister to be honest.

There is a real lack of integrity in general to be honest and instead a focus on soundbites and preaching to the converted.

I don't have any degrees though so clearly I'm not actually allowed an opinion.

NS is a very effective communicator and politician, I don't happen to agree with her and I don't happen to think that the answer lies in independence either. I'm not a tory and don't agree with everything in WM either.

She at least behaves with the dignity her position deserves and it's sad that that is not always the case amongst world leaders these days.

I don't think she's a great politician or leader, however.

Thanks for sharing the Jane Godley clips. Hilarious!

Having an economics degree or a degree with a part economics component doesn’t stop you believing that 10 years+ of austerity and higher taxes (on those high earners you don’t believe you are) is a price worth paying for ‘freedom’ and that in the long term it might be alright.

It’s possible for someone with an understanding of economics to be pro-independence of course, but it’s the dishonest nature of the debate that irks. I’d love a meaty discussion of the economic case for 5, 10, 15 years post independence as the vague it’ll be alright and ‘I’m willing to suffer for a while for independence’ are where you end up on closer study, which isn’t the same as saying Scotland won’t be poorer immediately post independence.

I have huge respect for Merkel and Jacinda Arden.

Our numbers are very low

Our numbers of Covid deaths do you mean?

Sweden is being internationally pilloried for its handling of the crisis which has resulted in around 5370 deaths.

Scotland, with half the population, around 2480 deaths. Fewer than Sweden, yes, but not by a huge number.

Very well said @WaxOnFeckOff

I keep my politics to myself IRL because, as you say, there's this arrogant assumption that everyone votes SNP.

My DPs have challenged many people for this thinking - eg my DM had a neighbour shout out "thank god for Nicola!" and my DM replied "Nicola can get to fuck!"

DD has a friend from a very indyref outspoken family. I have had to tell DD (who is 12) not to talk politics and just say vague things like "I don't know" (if asked who her parents vote for) and "I'm too young" (if asked who she supports). Its very very sad that I'm having to teach my DD to keep her mouth shut.

I know a lot of people who have decided not to vote SNP anymore though.

Some interesting facts:

the four LAs with a majority for ‘Yes’ – Glasgow City, West Dunbartonshire, Dundee City and North Lanarkshire – rank first, second, fifth and sixth in terms of claimant rates respectively

So if you are unemployed, you are more likely to vote independence as you think it will solve your unemployment (rather than make unemployment much more likely!!!)

Eilean Sair rejected independence by a margin of 7 percentage points

And people think Highlanders are more likely to want independence

the LAs with the highest support for independence were among the lowest in terms of their rates of 65+ population

Which may explain why your children vote SNP. They don't have enough life experience yet!

Some 60% of Protestants voted 'No', while 58% of Catholics voted 'Yes'

So links to irish independence apparently

Most earners under £30,000 voted 'yes'

Which links into my education argument, as does the benefits quote above.

37% of those eligible to vote, voted yes

That's not a mandate for independence. That's not a majority.

62.5% of 16-19yos voted yes, the highest percentage in any age group

So back to my argument about lack of degree, lack of life experience, sucked into the cult etc

61.9% of social rentors voted Yes. 64.6% of owner occupiers voted No

So independence voting is linked again to individual circumstances. There is a high level of deprivation in my LA which is one of the LAs mentioned above.

I finish by saying I mentioned education and degrees because that is what the research and the figures indicate. My mother has no degree or o levels and is as working class as they come with a foul mouth but would never vote SNP.

My late Gran (German) called the SNP dangerous and she would fucking know. My grandad on the other side (still living) is Northern Irish and agrees the party is "dangerous" and he also knows a thing or two about nationalism!

I agree there is not enough opposition to the SNP in Scotland. The current Opposition is weak. I miss Ruth Davidson.

@nextslideplease
You say "62.5% of 16-19yos voted yes, the highest percentage in any age group"
That chimes with me a lot. I don't know what school was like before, but in MY school I find that children are being indoctrinated in very subtle ways. For example, they barely know the United Kingdom exists. It is always and only "Scotland this" and "Scotland that". My p7 eldest didn't even know where or what London was.
When they "history" it is only from the Scottish perspective with a clear anti English slant.
Robert the Bruce, William Wallace, wars of independence. The rest is Romans, Vikings, the Titanic and little else. No hint of, say, Henry VIII and his 6 wives, war of the roses, Queen Victoria, Empire, joining of the crown's, etc.
Note: for those who say that Henry VIII was only an English king, I would like to point out that many nations were created over time (Spain, Italy, Germany, etc), but their vision of history does not stop on their doorstep).

Maybe that's why my DD declares she hates History, despite my best efforts!

I personally love Tudor history.

@ssd

Nice to see the FM being called a smirking little shit by babdoc above there.

Nice to see women being supported by other women.

I guess the future is in the hands of the young now. Like my ds and his many pals, who all graduated from RG uni this week with 2.1 degrees in politics, sciences and economics.. And all support an independent Scotland.

Time will tell.

The SNP don't currently recognise that women exist. They think we're a concept, an identity. If you try to engage them on the topic they ignore, deflect, shut down, or spout mantras in the best Orwellian tradition.

Joanna Cherry and others in the party are doing their very best to resist from inside, but the leadership finds this debate toxic, like all the other party leaders in the UK.

I have a lot of respect for the FM, but gets not one iota of free pass from me for being a woman. Why should children's authors have to be the ones to actually address the issue and take the flak while those actually in office put their fingers in their ears and go la la la? That's not democracy and NS is intelligent enough to know it.

@nextslideplease, I just couldn't stand the sanctification of William Wallace. They had to do one of those "drawings" in word art where you enter a series of words, choose a shape and the shape is made of those words. The words she choose (or, should I say, she was made to choose) were "courageous", "brave", "indomitable" and so on and so forth. I tried to have her add "smelly" (as he must have been, like everyone else in those days) and such like, but that was deemed unsuitable.

Well we won't have history soon, unless it's a sanitised version for woke times.

nextslideplease - I miss Ruth Davidson too. Don't agree with her politics, but she could challenge NS in a way that no-one else has since she stood down

Agree the opposition is woeful. Jackson Carlaw, Willie Rennie and Richard Leonard are probably lovely men but really weak and "wet" in parliament. No fire, no personality.

Ruth was bright, feisty and took no shit from anyone. Especially Ms Sturgeon.

Going back to the border row, there is a useful map here showing the local authorities with high levels of COVID infection. As you can see, there are also large swathes of England with little to no infection either (mostly those with lower population density, although there are some notable urban exceptions like London). So, there are hotspots throughout the U.K. and there might be a case for limiting travel to/from these regions, but it is too simplistic (and quite political) to draw an arbitrary boundary between England and Scotland and call for (or refuse to rule out) a blanket ban from those U.K. countries. After all there is no more a physical border restricting travel from Newcastle to Edinburgh as there is between any other two points in the U.K. you might care to choose (what with us all being one country and all).

Looking at that map i'd wager there are FAR more people living in Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, Oxfordshire, Gloucestershire, Northumbria, Suffolk, Norfolk, Newcastle, Durham and most of N Ireland than there are in Scotland.

And I agree that Scotland desperately needs a decent opposition and the general quality of our politicians is quite poor. I also worry about the lack of checks and balances (resulting in a fair bit of poor quality legislation) and I think a big part of the problem is the increased powers that have already been given to a Scottish Parliament that wasn’t structurally set up to handle them. It was designed as an assembly to essentially administrate health/education/housing etc. and as such has no second chamber or additional layer of scrutiny, but has grown to include much more since then. The parliamentary system hasn’t adapted though. Add in the fact that EVERYTHING is now seen through the prism of independence, for or against, and there is essentially no dissent or ‘crossing the chamber’ and it’s a perfect storm for bad decisions making it into law.

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us, you said what I was trying to say

What do you mean sockyarn? There are only around 1.8 million people in NI (I am from there). More density I suppose as the area is overall quite small.

@Messageinateacup I meant that Nicola is getting off on the fact that Scotland is different and clean and so better at dealing with the virus than anyone else, and that's all down to her glorious leadership, of course.

Whereas the map shows vast swathes of the country with similar levels of Covid as Scotland.

Covid 19 is affected by many things, proximity and ethnic minority being two.
London has 25 times more people and 10 times the number of BAME than Scotland so trying to take credit for having. slightly smaller figure per 100000 is blatant politics and lazy understanding of science.
Also % of those who died in English care homes is 26, in Scotland it’s 51!!
Nice of her to make the point that one of the Dumfries infections came from Carlisle hospital.

I don't think any part of the Uk can hold itself up as an example given the death rate