If you voted no in the independence referendum...

[HirplesWithHaggis]

...is Brexit changing your mind?

I've seen a number of people on social media (including MN) saying that they voted No in 2014 but would say Yes, or are starting to come round to the idea, in a second indyref because of Brexit. Sometimes it's because of the loss of freedom of movement, sometimes it's because Scotland's Remain vote has been completely ignored (see also Irish border issue), sometimes just the way our MPs are treated in Westminster.

Often it's reluctant, which I can fully understand. Have you changed your mind, are you swithering? Might you be persuaded?

For probably unnecessary disclosure, I voted Yes, and will do again. I am not a member of any political party/group. I'm just curious.

Fresh out today, Lord Ashcroft's latest poll shows support for Yes at 52%. Apparently they didn't include EU citizens or 16-18 yo, both groups part of the electorate, both likely to vote Yes...

And at point of hitting "post" there's not a word on the BBC.

It's no surprise that the BBC haven't reported it

Apparently one finding from that Ashcroft poll is that 40% of Labour voters are in favour of independence. I'm pleased to hear it.

It's no surprise that the BBC haven't reported it

Apparently one finding from that Ashcroft poll is that 40% of Labour voters are in favour of independence. I'm pleased to hear it.

Puts Richard Leonard in an interesting position, doesn't it? Perhaps Kez can advise...

I'm not quite swithering - but I'm open to reconsidering all of the arguments.

A big part of me feels like it would be doubling down on risk. I think it will take a lot to make me think otherwise - but I'm willing to be persuaded!

I voted yes but after ridiculous nonsense like all signs also in written Gaelic even the ffling police cars I think snp are idiots and want nothing to do with them ever again, so it's a NO now.

You can see it as "doubling down on risk", vasya (and I can see why you might) or you can see it as a chance for us to do things for ourselves. We won't always get it right, but our fuck ups will be ours, and not imposed by Boris and the ERG. We can see quite clearly the disaster looming at the end of October under WM rule. We can see quite clearly how much the SNP have tried to prevent and/or mitigate the effects for the whole of the UK, to no avail. Do we just go down without trying?

That's an interesting take, QueenBeee, given Gaelic signage was a Labour/LibDem initiative dating back to 2005.

I've changed name from Queenbee, but that would be labour/libdem attemtpign to outScottish the SNP. Wouldn't have happened without the SNP wallahs. Virtue signalling eejits - I thought a free Scotland would pour money into business, manufacturing and education but the opposite has been the case . Windfarms everywhere here despite tourism being the main earner in the area. Perhaps that's why our tourist numbers have been DROPPIng whilst they rose everywhere else.

You don't think tourism figures are dropping because of Brexit perhaps? Scottish visitor figures have actually risen while tourism to the rest of the UK has fallen so I'm not sure what you mean- www.scotsman.com/author/Jane.Bradley1

Why is promoting Gaelic such nonsense in your mind? And it's not like loads of money is spent specifically on signs in Gaelic. Signs that are replaced in the normal course of things, have had Gaelic included. We'd have spent money on the signage anyway.

A free Scotland will spend on what Scotland's elected representatives decide to spend on. As opposed to handing over all money raised to the country next to us and getting a (smaller) grant back, to spend in certain areas only. While having vast sums of money borrowed, spent 'on our behalf' on things we would not want if we were independent, and have to pay 'our share of' plus interest on. All the while being told that we are subsidy junkies and an economic basket case.

That’s quite a stretch to blame the SNP for the Lib Dem’s/labour acts, r44. Also are some traffic signs you don’t like which have nothing to do with the snp or an independent Scotland really a good reason to oppose independence considering the current mess we are in?

I meant to say, R44, you say you "thought a free Scotland would pour money into business, manufacturing and education but the opposite has been the case". Scotland isn't independent yet.

Plus, windfarms = clean energy. Scotland has a vast renewable energy capability and I, for one, see this is a very good thing. The Scottish Government has a target of generating 100% of Scotland's electricity from renewable energy, the majority of which is likely to come from wind power, by 2020.

There have been studies showing no connection between tourism and wind power. And some wind farms are actually tourist attractions.

Vasya, I am glad you're open to reconsidering! There was definitely an argument previously that the status quo (i.e. No) was a safe option to take, I can understand many people voting that way as independence was a scary thought.

However the situation is totally different now. Brexit, with Boris at the helm? Now both options for Scotland are new, and to me, staying in Boris's Brexit UK is definitely the scarier one. The Conservatives are very much 'everyone for themselves'. The Scottish Government have tried to stop Brexit, they have tried to compromise with the UK Government to mitigate the effects of Brexit for Scotland, and nothing they have suggested or asked for has been listened to.

Personally, I think Scotland could be a very successful independent country; and over and above that, I think we should be an independent country. Independence is normal. The union of the UK is no longer good for Scotland in any way - if anyone thinks I'm wrong, I would love to hear a few good reasons for Scotland to stay in the Union? Reasons that the Union is good for Scotland? We should grow up and become an independent nation in our own right, making our own decisions and our own way in the world. We absolutely shouldn't have a very British Brexit imposed on us in direct opposition to a large majority of our voters, and that is what is happening as a direct result of being in this unequal union.

You can see it as "doubling down on risk", vasya (and I can see why you might) or you can see it as a chance for us to do things for ourselves. We won't always get it right, but our fuck ups will be ours, and not imposed by Boris and the ERG. We can see quite clearly the disaster looming at the end of October under WM rule. We can see quite clearly how much the SNP have tried to prevent and/or mitigate the effects for the whole of the UK, to no avail. Do we just go down without trying?

I am generally unmoved by emotional appeals about making our own mistakes or going down without trying. I completely see the appeal of those sentiments, but they aren't what would change my mind.

I will want to see really specific solutions to the challenges we will face. What currency are we going to use, and what's the solution if not a currency union with the UK? If we do have a currency union with the UK, how do we address the fact that we will be using a currency where rates etc are set by the government of a foreign nation?

Will we be allowed to rejoin the EU? If so, how do we avoid a hard border with England if they haven't entered into a customs union with the EU?

How do we diversify our economy?

How do we protect ourselves if a Cold War between the US and Russia breaks out, or Iran develops a nuclear bomb?

If there's another referendum I'll approach it with the intention of making up my mind anew - I am very open to being persuaded by the independence movement, but it will have to be on the basis of solid factual evidence.

Scottish turnout for the brexit vote was 67%, compared to the historic high of 84% for the independence ref. I suspect Scotland isn't as passionate about the EU as we're being told.

Fwiw, I don't think of the UK as a union any more than I think of Scotland as a union between Aberdeen, the Highlands and the Central Belt. We're all the same and so are my English friends.

Currently there's a huge delay/overspend on the sick kids hospital in Edinburgh, and let's never speak of the tram fiasco again. Maybe Galashiels should tell us to fuck off, or the people of Caithness march for separatism.

I think we're better and stronger together, and I don't like breaking down institutions and putting up borders. That's why I voted remain and No.

I voted no and would still vote no

Bravo Vasya. I feel exactly the same. Emotional calls to arms make good copy but nobody votes like that. Tell us the facts.

No, still no.

What currency are we going to use, and what's the solution if not a currency union with the UK? If we do have a currency union with the UK, how do we address the fact that we will be using a currency where rates etc are set by the government of a foreign nation?

I think it most likely that we will establish our own currency, possibly pinned to the Euro. I'm no expert, but staying with the pound sterling as it plummets in freefall doesn't seem like a good start to me. Of course this will accelerate the decline of the £, so we'll have to do something to mitigate that. No idea what. :( But hey ho, they told us last time round they wouldn't "let" us use the £, so they can hardly complain if we don't now.

(Of course, we could have continued to use the £, they couldn't stop us. But it does put an important economic lever in WM's hands and we're better off without it. We could also choose to use the € though we could not join it.)

Will we be allowed to rejoin the EU? If so, how do we avoid a hard border with England if they haven't entered into a customs union with the EU?

Very probably, and without any major issues. Our legislation is all currently EU compliant, we would be net contributors, and we're getting friendly noises atm. Spain has specifically said they have no interest in vetoing us, and there is no "queue", so with goodwill on both sides negotiations should be amicable and swift.

Sadly this would mean a hard border with England, I can't see any way round that. But this border is much shorter than the border in N Ireland, far more easily policed with fewer roads, and doesn't come with a hundred years of violent history. So yes, you'll need a passport to visit your English cousins, which will be a pain, sorry.

How do we diversify our economy?

What do you feel we are over reliant on? Our economy is already pretty diverse, and we have new tech companies setting up.

How do we protect ourselves if a Cold War between the US and Russia breaks out, or Iran develops a nuclear bomb?

Stay out of it?

If there's another referendum I'll approach it with the intention of making up my mind anew - I am very open to being persuaded by the independence movement, but it will have to be on the basis of solid factual evidence.

Sadly it's difficult to provide "solid factual evidence" about any of these things, fairly informed conjecture is the best any of us can hope for.

Just to say, a passport isn't needed to travel to Ireland from UK. Some sort of common travel area could be negotiated, I guess.

Also, will you be asking for solid factual evidence from the unionist side of the debate as well?

Because there's no status quo any more.

You can look at independent countries of a similar size/population/economics etc to extrapolate how Scotland might do post independence. Where are you going to find info on the economy and other aspects of a post Brexit UK?

Also, will you be asking for solid factual evidence from the unionist side of the debate as well?

Of course I will.

I accept that seeking to break from the status quo is a difficult position to be in because there is inevitably more uncertainty about what the world will look like after a change. I factored that in last time when considering my decision.

But I think it's right to expect thoughtful, well-evidenced responses to these questions. The status quo is by no means automatically better than change, but it has the advantage of certainty and stability. If that is to be disrupted, it can't be on the basis of some vague romantic notion of 'going it alone'. There has to be at least a reasonably good evidential foundation for what happens next.

With a No Deal Brexit, there's no status quo, no certainty and no stability. That's the difference this time.

With a No Deal Brexit, there's no status quo, no certainty and no stability. That's the difference this time.

But we aren't voting on Scottish independence today. Sturgeon hasn't sought a referendum - and she's unlikely to until there is much greater clarity over what's happening with the UK and EU, because she knows that trying to make a case for independence now when there is so much uncertainty would be disastrous.

I believe there will be another independence referendum, but I will be astonished if it's called in the next two years. By the time it comes to the vote I think we will have a much more solid idea of what post-Brexit UK looks like.

It may look like an absolute disaster, and persuade many previous unionists to change their vote. But I don't think it will be a total unknown. I think Sturgeon is clever enough not to scupper her own chances by seeking a vote at a time of total uncertainty.

If Sturgeon instigates a referendum and fails to win it, her political career is over. She absolutely knows this. She's a gifted politician and will wait for the right time.

Having a referendum right now would be utter madness and the SNP know this.

Sorry not been on for a while as son was ill!
How about - are any no voters able to give solid facts re Scotland being better under Westminster than as a normal independent country?