Change Notre Dame High School from girls only

[Glasgowlassie]

I have 2 children, currently at Notre Dame Primary in Glasgow. I have only just discovered, due to a recent campaign that my son and daughter will not be able to go to the same High School.

Girls are enrolled into Notre Dame High School, an all girls high school, this is state funded and a total anomaly, the only one of its kind in Scotland. My daughter must go there unless I can get her into another local school via a placing request, becoming increasingly difficult in the West End.

My son has to go to the linked school 3 miles away, St Thomas Aquinas, if I can't get him into another school which is closer.

Over 75% of the girls in this girls only school come from a distance via placing request. So this has an impact on the local community and the environment.

There is a campaign to change this which is how I became aware that my children would not even be allowed to go to St Thomas Aquinas without a placing request for my daughter.

In 2018 there is no place for an all girls school as it is discriminatory. Schools should serve their local area first.

Campaign is here for anyone that is interested and wants to help change it. Particularly people from Glasgow.

www.ndh4all.net

Of course I didn't just find out that it was girls only Balfe, read paragraph 2 and 3 of my OP. What I have found out is that my daughter has no right to a place at the Catholic school her brother is in catchment for. So I would be forced to educate my children separately.

Including boys in NDHS would also mean that more girls from the local area would attend - the school is meant to serve it's local area and it isn't doing that. The girls from feeder primaries are NOT attending this school, that's the whole point. The feeder schools for this are in the West end, not spread all over the city so your comment about juggling is a red herring. Places would still be available via placing requests to children outside the area. NDHS currently has 200 places to fill, the roll is falling this will only continue if changes aren't made.

There are many comments about how I and other parents have a choice of other schools. That is NOT true, I can apply for places in other schools in the West end but most of these schools are already oversubscribed so this in increasingly unlikely to happen. The catchment area is irrelevant, we wouldn't be eligible as I've said several times,.

Notre Dame might be historic but that doesn't mean that it needs to stay stuck in the past. It is discriminatory, pure and simple. A school is meant to serve it's LOCAL area first, with only 25% of pupils coming from that local area how can it be claimed that it's fufilling that. It's not, and it's at the expense of boys in the area.

Lots of schools have placing requests from out of area. Should they all be banned?

Equality isn’t closing girls schools it’s making a boys school also available.

Balfe - girls at ND Primary have no right to a place at St Thomas, only ND Primary boys have a place there automatically. A placing request would need to be made.

Neither ND primary boys or girls have an automatic right to a place at any of the other local schools, including the non-dom ones.

All of the other schools are increasingly oversubscribed so placing requests are unlikely to be successful. No matter how close to another school I might live, catchment is almost irrelevant.

It is the lack of choice combined with increasing school rolls that has forced this issue again because it is disadvantaging the local children

I don't think it is a school designed to serve the local area. The Gaelic school 10 minutes away certainly doesn't and has an even smaller roll! I don't think their secondary reaches 500!

I think forcing ND to accept boys would ultimately close the school. All Catholic primaries have a linked secondary already. Which ones would come to a co-ed ND? St Patrick's and St Paul's? Most secondaries have around 6 or 7 feeders.

I'd imagine there is a significant movement to the private sector from the West End too.

Sevendown of course lots of schools have placing requests, where have I said that they should be banned either at NDHS or elsewhere?! But find me another school that is made up with 75% of its pupils from outside the area entering via a placing request. There is none. Placing requests have a role to fufill but there is no way they should be making up the vast majority of a school roll.

Local schools should serve local children first. NDHS isn't doing that. The admission policy is actively discriminating against boys. Single sex education should have no place in the state school sector, had this been a school for boys it would have been forced to change 20 years ago.

Why don’t your children have the right to attend the non dom catchment secondary? Because they went to a rc primary? I’m not in Glasgow but that sounds outrageous. My city has a ND and RC for secondary which ANY for the feeder primary children can attend - although the RC catchment has a wider boundary.

But find me another school that is made up with 75% of its pupils from outside the area entering via a placing request.

The thread just posted about the new Gaelic school fairly fits that profile!

St Patrick's was amalgamated with Notre Dame Primary years ago, ND primary is a big school, around 500 pupils. The majority of parents with daughters at the primary do not choose to send their daughters to NDHS. This is the same with the other feeder schools and is why NDHS has such a small minority of local pupils.

The lack of local pupils and the falling number of placing requests is why NDHS has a school roll that is falling, it has 200 spaces where other schools in the area are full or oversubscribed. Admitting boys would mean that more local girls would also attend the school. Girls whos parents would otherwise be put off by the archaic notion of single sex education or having to split their children up.

If nothing changes and NDHS remains single sex, the roll will keep falling. GCC will have the perfect argument to close it - the school wasn't being used by the local community it's meant to serve. It sits on prime land in the West end, GCC have form for selling to developers, its happened very recently. Admitting boys may be the only way to save it.

The Gaelic school isn't comparable, there are entry requirements for that school that don't exist anywhere else, local residents dont get priority. It isn't meant to serve only it's local area, its a city wide school but that's because it is offering a specialised education, it would be impossible to do that in individual area schools.

NDHS is meant to serve the local area first, that's why it has a placing request system. Local children get priority, but only if they happen to be female.

ND is also a city wide school offering a specialised education (with historic precedent).

Cleay you disagree but I feel that this petition is set up only for the good of your own child and not for the good of the school(s).

We're in East Dunbartonshire - the nearest RC secondary to Bearsden/Milngavie is Turnbull High in Bishopbriggs. Most children who have attended RC primaries in Bearsden/Milngavie go to non-denominational secondary schools.

A good friend went through this last year, it might have said on her P7 child's form that his catchment school was Turnbull High, she just crossed that out, wrote the name of the catchment non-denominational school and he got his place. I would imagine Glasgow is just the same. If you want your children to be educated together, locally, then you apply to the catchment secondary. Not a placing request. As a child who is living in the catchment, just like anyone else.

Balfe the Galic school isn't remotely comparable, there are specific entry requirements to that school as it is providing a specialised education. It doesnt work on the basis of only a placing request, the requirements need to be met first. It is meant to be a city wide school precisely because it is providing a specialised education which could not be provided in individual schools.

NDHS gives priority to those in catchment, the way any other local school does. Distance is the criteria that needs to be met for an automatic place, there are no other entry requirements except of course that you also need to be female.
If NDHS were oversubscribed it would be local girls who got the places, not those from outside the local area - this isn't what would happen at the Gaelic school.

So find me a local school where 75 % of the pupils come from outside the area

Is just put placing requests into Hyndland and Hillhead - even Cleveden might be close enough. If your children attend Notre Dame primary they should be fine to walk to either of these schools.

Frankly I’m amazed that you did not know the options for RC state high school if you chose to put your child into ND primary.

However I know many parents are put off the boys state RC high school as the perception is that it is a fairly rough school. Perhaps this is what lies at the heart of this campaign.

k2p you are not understanding. A child from ND primary cannot apply and get a place at another school simply because they are in catchment. They are required to complete a placing request, because they want to go to a school that is not their feeder school. The only feeder schools for ND primary are NDHS for girls and St Thomas for boys.

The placing request for the alternative school would only be considered once all the children from the feeder schools have a place and all the other categories who have priority.

Even if the child lived in the catchment area a placing request being granted is increasingly unlikely to be sucessful because the local non-dom schools and even St Thomas, the RC co-ed school are all oversubscribed or at capacity.

Unfortunately it is not as simple as scoring out a school on a form. A placing request is required, even when in catchment.

Tinycitrus these schools are at capacity, forecast to get even more full. It's not that simple.

Obviously I did realise that ND pupils would transition into a local RC school, what I didn't realise was that both my children would not be guaranteed a place at the RC co-ed and that in fact my daughter would be forced to go to NDHS if, as is increasing likely, that placing request isn't successful. Being unable to educate my children at the same school wasn't really a foreseeable consequence

Your petition is self serving, ill thought out and really is all about your convenience
NDHS going co-ed would require public consultation, planning consent
and building work to commence for wc, change rooms etc
That won’t complete in the next 5-6 years you’ll want it. So that’s v ill thought out

And finally no single sex isn’t discriminatory, youre simply want to change a school to suit your needs

A thread about “what about teh menz/boyz” and a local school for local people... has anyone called bingo on the Muslim population favouring single sex education at NDHS yet or is that just a wee bit too UKIP for you OP?

I’m genuinely surprised how caught out you seem by all of this

The catchments & feeder information is out there on GCC website,and locally known
If you had wanted to keep them together through primary & secondary school you had other G12 non denomination choices
You chose r.c primary and Rc secondary and didn’t apparently know the high schools criteria?

Balfe NDHS are teaching the standard syllabus as the rest of the country, that is not what the Gaelic school is doing. So to suggest that they are specialised in the same way is clearly not true.

And for your information, I didn't set up the petition I was merely publicising it so it hasn't been set up for the good of my child. As a parent with children who are affected and also as a local resident, of course I have a view, it would be ridiculous to suggest I didn't but this petition is off the back of a campaign to benefit all local children.

There were 7 local schools who were asked if they supported the push for a consultation, which they did. The parents at NDPS were also balloted and 83 percent of them.wanted this taken to a consultation. This is what has led to the petition, not me setting it up for my children.

However this is much bigger than where I want my children to go to school. It is gender discrimination which is detrimental to local children. That's why it needs to change.

Hi OP I live in the catchment too and agree with you - it's totally bizarre and at odds with the way state school places are allocated in the entire rest of Scotland (except special Jordanhill of course!)
It's completely obvious that there's no other state provision in the area that would allow your kids to all stay together, other than going non-denominational I suppose.
I'm not Catholic and am fairly ambivalent about Catholic schools in Scotland - I'll go with non denominational when the time comes, but agree with you in principle. I imgaine you'd otherwise be in the Cleveden catchment? Can see why that would be a worry as the alternative option.
Personally I think if folk want an all girls school, send them to Craigholme. Single sex education has no place being funded by the taxpayer.

Lipstick it's not my petition. This is a campaign looking for a public consultation - I didn't set it up. I was merely publicising it. How about reading the info on the link as it's very clear on there before coming out with your misinformed comments.

And no Lipstick I didn't know, I must have failed to read the info as you clearly have failed to read all the info on the link

This all comes across self serving,want the convenience of local RC PS near you
But don’t want the Kids at two high school? So you had other options
RC and the school allocation as you’ve described
You could have gone non denomination PS and HS would hillhead,hyndland,Clevedon?

How did you not know?dont other parents not talk.the g12 chaterrati
Schools and house prices,dithering about moves to east Dunn or east REN that’s the main west end vibe for parents

OP, I work at the university and over the past 10 years lived in North Kelvinside, Hyndland and Park. I agree with you that ND would serve the local community much better if it were co-ed. We've moved to the southside now and one of the reasons we did this was schools.

Living up at Park Circus, Hillhead Primary and secondary were a stone's throw from us (on my 10 minute walk to work) but the catchment had been narrowed so much that we were no longer included - our primary school would have been Anderston, which is further away. I'm Catholic so would probably have applied for ND for my DS instead but this does highlight just how massively oversubscribed schools in the west end are. It's crazy.

Lipstick you seem to have an issue with G12 and the people who live there, maybe this thread about a school in G12 isnt for you, it seems to be upsetting you.