Argh - how to vote !

[rookiemere]

In scotsnet as this is a uniquely Scottish problem - apologies if there's a politics area somewhere that I should be in.

My postal vote has been sitting staring at me for days.

I know who I don't want to get in. As a non-scots British person with an English DH, I'll do everything I can to avoid another referendum.

Our local Labour MP actually does a lot for the local community and seems like a good egg. But the overall party is a disaster and SNP are talking about going jointly with Labour so they can push through another independence vote.

I cannot bring myself to vote Tory after what they've done - also every time they think up a remotely fair taxation idea i.e. making self employed pay same taxes as employed or making rich OAPs pay for care, even though Ruth Davidson seems very different from the conservatives in England, can't bear to watch the Westminster crowing when/if they get a huge victory.

My heart says Lib-Dems and in fact I've done some campaigning for them at local level, but pre voting questionnaires seem to suggest it's a 3 way race between Lab/Con/SNP so it would be a wasted vote.

Is anyone else really struggling to decide for this election?

Morris, Labour in Scotland aren't against Tories. Kezia wants you to vote Tory in Scotland where they might beat the SNP. Seriously. This isn't a joke or anything.

The SNP and Jeremy Corbyn have indicated a willingness to possibly work together on certain things in Westminster. Kezia, of course, would have all sorts of conniptions if that were actually to happen.

This is a GE we are voting on, not a Holyrood election. Because Labour have gone so far downhill in Scotland - honestly they are almost non-existent now and no wonder - then a vote for Labour in certain Scottish constituencies could actually help the Tories. Because the vote is between SNP and Tories. Labour are nowhere.

You are more likely to help Corbyn by voting SNP in Scotland than voting Labour. Sad but true. And it's all because of Labour in Scotland's utter inability to open their eyes to anything except hate of the SNP.

I want to cast an anti-Tory vote. This election for me is not about independence - I think another independence referendum will come, it is just a question of timing. It will be won or lost by one side. If the Tories thought it would be a definite No I think they'd have pushed for a snap one - yes there would be a cost to running it, but how much is this vanity general election costing, and how much getting on with running the UK is being done just now?

The only problem I have is working out the best vote. I think it is for our SNP incumbent. But Labour say they are doing well. The Tories did well in some council wards within the seat, and are pitching themselves as the contenders (despite the fact that their leaflets only have one policy, and that's opposing a referendum that the Scottish Parliament has already voted for). I worry that the vote will be so split between tactical anti-SNP voting and tactical anti-Tory voting that we'll end up with a Tory MP (and I know the candidate - in my view he would be utterly useless as a representative).

What has really struck me this election is how badly this country does devolution. We have a mix of parliaments, assemblies, mayors etc. We have Scottish/Welsh/NI debates focussing on devolved issues which are not really part of the Westminster election (apart form the fact that Westminster impacts the funding). National debates focus on policies that largely only impact Scotland/Wales/NI through funding.

For all those thinking a vote for lib dem is wasted, it's not if you're in a safe (snp) seat. You can check on the various prediction sites- if even a 10% change wouldn't get the snp out then vote with your conscience. That's what I'm going to do.

The big parties DO notice how many votes they "lose" to smaller parties - just look at how ukip changed the tories. A big vote for lib dems won't change my MP, but then almost nothing will. It will send a anti-indyref2 signal and maybe influence the values of the main parties.

I'm quite relieved in a way as my tactical vote would have been Tory for the first time ever!

Just to second teapotter on not ruling out an upset, my long-standing Lib Dem MP was voted out in an SNP upset at the last GE. He produced pamphlets showing the previous election turnout stating the the SNP couldn't possibly win here and a Lib Dem vote was the only way to keep out the Tories. Now I'm looking at Ruth Davidson's support letter for the local Tory candidate that shows the same graphic, stating that a Tory vote is the only way to keep out the SNP!

That said I'm loathe to vote Lib Dem because the schools here went to hell under them. Cutting school hours, increasing class sizes etc. However, like hamlet, I think the SNP have been disastrous for education too-- the C4E is an utterly self-regarding system of 'learning' and I fear that our children are being used as guinea pigs and will suffer.

Still not sure what to do tomorrow but glad I found this thread as lots of thought-provoking comment here on both sides.

You are more likely to help Corbyn by voting SNP in Scotland than voting Labour. Sad but true. And it's all because of Labour in Scotland's utter inability to open their eyes to anything except hate of the SNP

Thanks Nyx You have articulated why I'm voting SNP tomorrow. I'm still a party member (shhhh!) but the Scottish Labour Party are dreadful. Encouraging a Tory vote is shameful. My dream outcome is Scotland goes SNP, rUK swings Labour, and the Scottish Labour Party flush out the careerists and get back to basics and values.

Olly that's my hope as well

Olly, see this: www.commonspace.scot/articles/11130/leya-heres-why-you-have-vote-snp-if-you-want-labour-win-ge2017

Thanks Olly I'm clinging onto Labour membership just now as well, but have thought so many times about giving it up. I think they need to go neutral on indy - they'll never out-indy the SNP and they'll never out-unionist the Tories.

Littlecar, I think you might be in the same area as me! I have never spoiled a ballot paper in my life, but crikey I'm considering it tomorrow. What a flaming mess.

I was speaking to my neighbour this afternoon: he couldn't get over how Kezia had advised Labour voters to vote Conservative in SNP-Conservative marginals

He though Labour should have been more neutral and pragmatic and said simply that this is a Westminster election in which the choice is to vote on whether you support - or not - Conservative policies (as they are the incumbent) as they relate to the UK (ie do you want more austerity, the continuation of the rape clause he does not like Ruth Davidson and her wholesale support of all the Conservative policies emanating from Westminster)

He didn't want me to waste the leaflets I was delivering on him or his wife, as they'll be voting SNP tomorrow

As doctors dealing with particularly vulnerable groups they've seen what's happening in England and don't want it happening here.

Labour think (quite rightly) that Indy would bring turbo charged austerity to Scotland. They're an anti austerity party. Why the fuck would you expect them to abandon their principles just to get more votes ?!

My mum who has always voted SNP has voted Labour, she's fed up with the SNP's talking left acting right and the mess they've made of education etc. Let's hope there's many more that see the light!!

Labour's manifesto talks about borrowing to invest, spending on public services etc. The same tactics the SNP have wanted to follow in Scotland but don't have enough control of the economic levers. How come it will be fabulous for rUK when labour does it but turbo charged austerity when it's done in Scotland? Oh yes, because we're too wee and too poor etcetc

The SNP only wants an end to austerity in their sound bites, not in reality. In reality, they have cut teachers, nurses and spent freely on things that people notice to cover up their decisions to maintain cuts.

Anyone else noticed that even the SNP's new exam system (and my, what a beauty that is - 6 subjects in S4, not 8 in most schools) is propaganda too - the Nationals?

Oh, and the oil. The black gold that was going to supply us all with milk and honey in a land populated by unicorns and rainbow dust. Lies too.

I don't blame Kezia for that, Corbyn has been about as constant in his support for the UK as he's been in his support for the EU. The rape clause is something the SNP can overturn as Davidson pointed out - have they?

Scotland would have a junk credit rating. Meaning if Scotland could borrow at all it would be at far far higher rates than the UK as a whole.

"A newly independent country facing such a deficit would need to cut public spending or increase taxes to reduce the budget deficit to a more manageable level."

Vote Tory to keep the SNP out, if you don't mind no NHS, more terrorist attacks and suffering for disabled people.

And I have never voted SNP and never will

If everyone who said that in their hearts they're LibDem voted LibDem they would no longer be unelectable.

Are you really blaming the Tories for the terrorist attacks? Really? Goodness. Even in my most rabid left moments I am afraid I think that kind of rhetoric is unacceptable.

I think the cuts to policing and security services played a large part in terrorists getting away with attacks, yes. People even warned of this years ago. Its not even an out there comment, not sure why the shock horror.

Getting away? The police killed 3 after only 8 minutes. They did an amazing job.

I am sure more could be done to find them before the attacks but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Are you also blaming Labour for 7/7? Blair was PM then and had been for some time.

They did their best job. Once it had happened. Is my point.

I'm not getting into it. Will agree to differ. Fill your boots..the country is doing wonderfully under the Tories I'm sure. :)

Sleep beckons

Please don't vote Tory!!

soup same here! As far as I know there are not even any independents running here that you could cast a protest vote for.

According to the bookies the Lib Dems have a good chance of taking my constituency off the SNP. So Lib Dem it is.