Argh - how to vote !

[rookiemere]

In scotsnet as this is a uniquely Scottish problem - apologies if there's a politics area somewhere that I should be in.

My postal vote has been sitting staring at me for days.

I know who I don't want to get in. As a non-scots British person with an English DH, I'll do everything I can to avoid another referendum.

Our local Labour MP actually does a lot for the local community and seems like a good egg. But the overall party is a disaster and SNP are talking about going jointly with Labour so they can push through another independence vote.

I cannot bring myself to vote Tory after what they've done - also every time they think up a remotely fair taxation idea i.e. making self employed pay same taxes as employed or making rich OAPs pay for care, even though Ruth Davidson seems very different from the conservatives in England, can't bear to watch the Westminster crowing when/if they get a huge victory.

My heart says Lib-Dems and in fact I've done some campaigning for them at local level, but pre voting questionnaires seem to suggest it's a 3 way race between Lab/Con/SNP so it would be a wasted vote.

Is anyone else really struggling to decide for this election?

Look I'm not particularly proud of my vote, but i feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I could have voted Lib Dem and got no grief about it, but in our neck of the woods it's a wasted one.

Diane Abbot is not everyone's cup of tea, but she's at least relatively harmless. She's not hell bent on privatising the NHS or anything like that. I fail to see what the threat would be having her as part of a labour government.

Labour have absolutely ruled out any 'getting into bed with the SNP'. It would be electoral suicide for them for years to come. I am genuinely surprised that you don't know this. It worries me that people won't vote labour because they think that's going to happen. It is not.

I was dubious about Jeremy Corbyn to begin with too. However I have been very impressed by the way he has carried out his campaign with dignity and ^^humanity showing compassion and a willingness to take steps get us out of the mess we are in. I trust that he's a good diplomat, not a blowhard like May is.

I genuinely am terrified that our public services cannot take change much more of this and may reach the point of no return after another five years of this government, with their ideological obsession with shrinking the state. God forbid we head further in the direction of the USA.

And before anyone pulls me up on it, I know Diane is shadow home
Secretary. Ask yourself if she's really worse than the embarrassment to the nation, Boris Johnson.

Indeed, but JC said that his government would allow the second referendum (or wording to that effect) and since then NS has been harping on about the "progressive alliance".
Well, that sounds like political suicide to me... Those who do not want a second referendum cannot vote labour anymore; those who do want it, will not vote labour anyway. I am sure JC is a very nice chap, but...

It would be hard for anyone to be more against independence than I am! However things have clearly changed so profoundly since the last referendum it seems ridiculous to deny requests for another one.

The answer to that is "Yes" she is worse. Boris for all his faults is not stupid.

The woman is an idiot. Imagine if a white tory MP had said that white women were better mothers than black women do you think they's still have a career in politics never mind being shadow home secretary. And as for thinking that "on balance chairman Mao did more good than harm" it's incredulous. As for Jeremy, the fact he shagged her was enough to show his poor judgement, never mind appointing her to such a role. He should be denouncing her and instead he is promoting her. But then he is anti semitic so they are probably well suited.

it seems ridiculous to deny requests for another one.

Of course it's ridiculous. there is no more a mandate for indyref2 than there was before. Less than half the population voted to stay in Europe in Scotland and a lot of them did so because Nicola told them to, for her own reasons.

Also Scotland wasn't voting as an independent nation in the EU referendum. It was a national vote. Personally I wouldn't have allowed them to work out the proportions in the regions, just left it as a national %age.

The impact of a independent Scotland would be far worse than that of a Britain separated from the EU.

The short answer is I don't trust Corbyn not to coalition with the SNP and deliver independence. I do like Kezia, she's much more my cup of tea than he and his team are but Corbyn doesn't like her. And I think Corbyn's policies would be worse for the UK as a whole in many, many ways.

I do care about all the things you mention duck it is possible to care and still believe that because Corbyn can't build consensus (see the parliamentary party), and is trying to do too much change too quickly that he is the worse choice for society.

You can call me whatever you want but it's possible to look at the evidence and come up with a conservative vote without being a heartless monster.

I work in the public sector and I'm voting Conservative (but don't tell my mum!). Lib dem have no chance in my constituency and my main concern is preventing indyref2. I've come to the conclusion that voting conservative is the best choice in this election however I too hope to go back to labour in the future.

Like others, I'm voting Conservative to make the strongest statement against Indyref2. A Corbyn-led government terrifies me for many reasons, not least because of his questionable choices for his top team (Dianne Abbot really does come across as a bigoted idiot), his lack of experience, and because his fiscal plans seem hopelessly naive. But what worries me most is that he seems weak on the independence question - while Kezia is trying to take a hard line and say that Labour will always oppose independence because of the turbo charged austerity it will bring, Corbyn says he'll try and persuade the Scottish government to drop its plans, but will ultimately leave it up to them. Sturgeon will NEVER drop a chance for an Indyref, and I think it's another demonstration of his naivety and lack of top level experience.

A Conservative government may not be perfect, but their plans for public services, social care etc. don't affect us anyway (that's all down to the SNP) and they can be voted out in a few years. The SNP with their determination to push through another Indyref are the much bigger threat right now imo.

I'm probably voting SNP to try and stop the Tories taking this seat. Bit put out that I am voting against something (weak and wobbly Theresa May) rather than for something, but this election seems to be more about 'what are you against' rather than 'what are you for'.

yes, totally agree with that! I'm not sure if this means that the democratic consensus is fraying, or whether we just don't have any politicians that can appeal to enough different sorts of voters at the moment.

I thought I had made up my mind, but this thread has made me question my plans. Argh!

I just came here to start a thread about this and found this one! I'm so conflicted - I have no idea who to vote for with days to go to the election, a situation I've never found myself in in all my years of voting.

I would do anything to avoid another indy ref. In my constituency, SNP have a majority, with labour being the only other party with a look in- so tactically I should vote labour. But I don't trust they can deliver anything they've said, and the senior leadership team....!
Anything else is a wasted vote really isn't it?

what was the local election vote like Glitter?

also, is your local labour a fan of Corbyn or not? These questions would inform how I voted.

SNP won 10 seats but not overall control, Labour won 8 in council elections.
SNP candidate is well liked locally and had a 14k majority at last election- I want to vote for him because he does a great job, but Sturgeon will take that as evidence Scots want Indy ref, I can't bear that thought! Labour candidate has never stood before, seems pro Corbyn, but more strongly pro Kesia according to all I have read/ seen.

Those were helpful questions Nolottery, thank you!

hah - unenviable choices! I'd probably pick the one I thought was most personally admirable. At the end of the day, the SNP can say that any vote for them is a vote for independence but it isn't, you can always vote no in a referendum.

I think I'd vote Labour in your shoes Glitter. It sounds like the SNP will win easily anyway so you'll get a decent MP, but your vote won't be counted as support for indyref2.

There has been a vote in the Scottish Parliament to have a 2nd indyref - so surely one will take place anyway? As a PP said, you can always vote No.

Not necessarily, nyx. The vote is not binding and has to be approved by westminster. If we wait till the next SP elections (as we should, at the very least) and the SNP loses ground, then I would expect to be kicked in the long grass.

you can always vote no, but you really do NOT need another divisive referendum (followed by another one and another one on the flimsiest excuse).
What must be changed is the mechanism whereby one part of the UK splits up from the rest. The way it has been conceived now is most unsatisfactory.

For those saying Diane is harmless. What a ridiculous thing to say.

The woman is not unwell, she is way out of her depth hence her series of horrific interviews. She was pulled from doing two more live interviews today, with the reason cited as her being unwell. Yet, there is a photo of her taken this morning in Oxford Circus tube station at 8.40 on her phone. It's obvious how much of a liability she is so the Labour Party are wheeling out Emily Thornbury instead and not allowing DA to embarrass thus jeopardising the Labour Party's chances anymore prior to Thursday.

How anyone can vote for this woman to be in charge of our National Security is beyond me.

I'm with Duck

I moved up from London a couple of years ago and the difference in public services is immense. DSis is currently in end of life care and the integration of health and social care has been key in making sure she is as comfortable as possible with all that she needs. If we'd been in England, I know the standard and level of care would be much poorer.

The SNP could have done a lot more for public services in Scotland - I grant you that. They have had a mandate for 10 years but do operate within strict budget constraints set by Westminster. They have not "fucked it up". We no longer have council house sales, we have free social care for the elderly, we don't have the ridiculous bidding for school places that I read about on MN.

I'm actually still a Labour Party member and if I was still in London I'd be voting Labour. Voting SNP on Thursday for two reasons - excellent, visible hardworking local MP (who ousted Labour) and the SNP have been a credible opposition to the Tories.