To ask how Scottish Indyref1 NO voters are feeling about it today?

[StatisticallyChallenged]

I was just chatting with DH about the possibility of a second Indyref whilst watching the news and I wondered how those who voted no in 2014 are feeling now?

Cards on the table, for those who weren't on the Indyref threads, I was a strong no voter and campaigner last time. I work in financial services (have changed company since) and I had huge concerns about the impact on the economy of a No vote - all the issues around currency etc. I also found a lot of the campaign arguments very unconvincing and like we were being promised the moon which could never materialise.

I still feel that way about the last referendum. But I have to admit that watching the news today, seeing people proudly declaring they voted out because of immigrants...this isn't a country which currently reflects me. I still have massive concerns about the economy although it's a lot less clear cut given the likely turmoil over the next few years.

I'm well aware that an independent Scotland may have huge issues getting in to the EU btw, it's not so much about the EU membership but about feeling a bit less affinity with being 'British' today.

Still No. The reasons I voted No the first time are still there; still in the dark about currency, economic policy based on oil etc.
A lot of people seem to think we'd just apply to be a member of the EU and it would happen, but the last thing Spain wants is to set a precedent for Catalonia to break away, especially as it's their richest area.
I just hope things have settled down a bit before another referendum.

Actually, perhaps there's hope of an early GE and all this will be forgotten....

"How can you say that you will support (or conversely, not support) indy2 without any facts or figures to support your decision. I just don't get that at all"

I'm assuming people mean broadly rather than...I'm off to vote right this second.

Even broadly....based on what? There are no fact/figures or even an outline of what an independent Scotland in the EU would offer. I can understand people being frustrated, but to move from an emphatic No to a Yes in 48 hours with no detail upon which to base that decision is odd (imo). Far more discussion, planning and detail is needed. It might be that we are better off in the EU as an indy country, or it might be that some sort of trading partnership is better, or it might be any number of others outcomes would be better. We just don't know.

I'm basing it on a 'rats deserting..' premise. I think the UK will be fucked out of the EU, economically and politically and I don't want anything to do with it. Whether the EU will have us is another question, of course..

I think when it comes to the whole independence thing there were broadly 3 categories - yes regardless, no regardless and up for debate which was a broad spectrum from ideologically yes leaning to no leaning but who could be swayed by debate.

I think a fair few no regardless have moved to up for debate, and some of the soft yes have probably gone to the hell yes camp. The mid ground is probably a bit bigger with a lot of pissed of remain supporting no voters who have lost their ideological opposition, but not their marbles

I'm probably in that group, I did a shit load of research last time but I was also fairly sure I wanted to be part of the uk, considered myself British, etc - all oh which I was pretty open about. Now I'm not so wedded to the concept of being part of Britain. However I will still do the aforementioned shit loads of research, and if the vote was tomorrow with the current situation I'd be a No.

"but to move from an emphatic No to a Yes in 48 hours with no detail upon which to base that decision is odd (imo)."

I don't think it is, it just means they've moved their starting point, surely? Not that they're now going to vote yes no matter what.

In which case, we should disregard the polls because they're all just about starting points as opposed to intentions to vote?

That doesn't make sense.

"In which case, we should disregard the polls because they're all just about starting points as opposed to intentions to vote?"

Probably, yes

Everything is so up in the air just now that it's all kneejerk reactions and first impressions.

I think right now the polls are probably as useful as a chocolate teapot

And yet the polls are still being used as 'proof' of a massive swing to Yes

I can understand people moving towards 'undecided' (as SC says - The mid ground is probably a bit bigger with a lot of pissed of remain supporting no voters who have lost their ideological opposition, but not their marbles) but to say that you'd vote Yes (as a No voter 2 years ago) seems like a massive leap of faith to me, esp without the accompanying detail - and at such an early stage.

What's amusing me at the moment is the cognitive dissonance of the yessers on my Facebook feed sharing doom and gloom market and pound falling stories and saying "look the experts were right, they weren't just scaremongering". The penny doesn't seem to have dropped that if yes had won indyref then the outcome was likely to be similar!

Ahh yes - but at least we'd be in control of our very own economic disaster

Define "in control"

I was thinking yesterday about how this in all probability would have been Scotland October 2014 if yes had won. we'd have been facing similar economic crisis. Some of the arguments they spout are so similar to the no thanks campaign, it's just a different battle, I find it quite hypocritical. As pp said actually in this debate Scotland is more aligned with the big cities of the U.K. than the disenfranchised northern areas they aligned with during indyref

I'm done with the whole damn thing now.

I think it does make sense to shift from "no" to "yes" for a lot of people. I largely voted "no" because of my concerns about the economy, about the EU, and because I'm boring and like money. I was quite surprised by how different I felt when suddenly that bridge was nuked. Once the economy went into freefall and it felt as if the worst had happened, I realized I was dramatically more open to the idea of independence.

I'm not a hard "yes" now, but I've gone from "definitely no" to "undecided, and leaning towards yes". I've also found the English attitude towards immigrants increasingly painful during indyref - OH is first generation immigrant and has really noticed it - and have felt quite betrayed by a lot of people who were very pro-union and then went Brexit (all from down South) so I think the process of the referendum has been moving me away from Better Together, even before the vote.

If Sturgeon came back tomorrow with anything like a sensible answer on the currency question and a decent plan for EU membership, I'd totally jump to "yes", I think.

Add a sensible plan for the economy and an agreement from the EU that they would take us on the same terms and I might think about it.

Immigration is a strange one. On one hand I've been horrified by the out and out racism I've witnessed recently. Otoh we are so protected from what appears to be the uncontrolled immigration that communities in England are to facing that it's impossible for us to say how we'd react if our child had to try and learn in a class where 27 other languages were spoken.

I can't help but feel a bit cynical about the stories of all these children in school not speaking any English. I understand that children with English as a second language are at a disadvantage but ime they also tend to pick it up incredibly quickly. As an example we have a Spanish speaking family recently moved to our school, little girls arrived not speaking a word of english. 3 months later they're speaking in sentences and I see little disadvantage to the other children. Children absorb languages even of their parents don't speak them. So I find it hard to believe there are schools chock full of children without a word of English- they might arrive that way but...

I've been in classrooms in Edinburgh with 4 different languages plus English, so not exactly untouched by immigration.

"Children absorb languages even of their parents don't speak them."

Yep there are 5 polish families* in my street and a Portuguese one, and you can't tell at all which ones have Scottish parents or don't when they're all out playing.

• I do know the people in my street rather than classifying them by nationality, rofl

I think our school has a fair number of languages , it's a pretty middle class kind of area - just to point out that well off areas can be diverse too- and I know my dd's class definitely has native speakers of Spanish, French, Japanese,Finnish and Polish and I think others too, I don't do the school runs so may be missing some.

Hi all,

After a great many requests, we're moving the bulk of the referendum threads to the new board here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_

Many of you, understandably, want to discuss this subject at length and in detail - this seems a good way to simultaneously keep AIBU and Chat moving for those who don't wish to participate. Of course, the conversations will still appear in Active.

This thread is not only about the EU referendum, it's about the future of Scotland and more about Scottish independence than the eu. It doesn't belong in the eu referendum section

4/5 children is very different to the levels of immigration that some communities in England have faced. We're not untouched by immigration - but we can't claim to have the same levels, we just can't. Don't be cynical - it happens, and I think refusing to acknowledge that it poses a problem for the communities affected is precisely why Farage etc have been able to make the gains they have.

Agree with SC - this is about Scotland. It doesn't belong in the EU referendum section.

Edinburgh has trouble with school places - but that's not immigration, that's because the council closed schools at the same time as the birth rate rose.

At this rate we won't just need an EU Referendum topic we will need a Scottish one. At the moment I think I would still be No on economic grounds, but I don't see myself campaigning this time. I can't knock on doors and sell this UK to people. And if some kind of federal deal is possible I can see myself going for that.