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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Original poster

Scottish Labour

195 replies

ClopySow · 01/04/2016 18:43

I've voted snp for the last while, but would align my political views with a traditional labour government, not new Labour. I can get on board with Jeremy Corbyn, but can't get past Kezia Dugdale. Are Scottish Labour more Corbyn or milliband?

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 14:11

I'll be voting Green in May. I really like what they're saying about tackling wealth inequality as well as income inequality

I'm toying with this too - I was very impressed with their proposals for council tax, and am pretty disappointed that the SNP failed to do anything more than vaguely tweak around the edges. The SNPs stnace in tracking also disturbs me.

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 02/04/2016 14:15

The SNPs stance in tracking also disturbs me.

Sorry, I'm being really thick but what does that mean?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 14:15

What's happened to socialist principles? Scotland used to be the place for it

I think one problem is that Labour used to be the socialist party, and they pretty much had Scotland sewn up.for years - now that Labour has totally ditched what it used to stand for all those voters have gone for the the SNP which is now the furthest left. Over time maybe the SNP members will force them further left?

The greens just aren't really seen as a credible alternative and they don't have the critical mass to really do anything. The SSP was doing OK into Tommy Sheridan pretty much destroyed it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 14:17

Sorry, I'm being really thick but what does that mean?

FFS autocorrect. That was meant to say fracking

SetPhasersTaeMalkie · 02/04/2016 14:19
Grin

Phew. Thought it was yet another thing I'd missed!

HirplesWithHaggis · 02/04/2016 14:29

Surely RISE or Solidarity on the list vote would be the most lefty way to vote? Don't think they're standing in the constituencies, though.

Original poster
ClopySow · 02/04/2016 14:29

Haha! Oh shit! Are the SNP tracking us now?

Ok, so the greens are looking good, i'll have a look into them. My worry about them i guess was that they seemed to be in the SNP's pocket during the referendum.

OP posts:
Original poster
ClopySow · 02/04/2016 14:31

It would be the most lefty way to vote, but could be a wasted vote unless there are enough votes to get them seats.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 14:33

There is no way I am voting for any party that has Tommy Sheridan in it!

RISE seem to have worthy ideals but not concrete suggestions.

I think voting Green is the most left you can vote, and get someone who has a clue...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 14:35

I don't think the Greens were in SNPs pocket? I think they have always been quite outspoken against a lot of the SNPs policies. The Greens do support indepe.ndence though.

peggyundercrackers · 02/04/2016 14:35

I was very impressed with their proposals for council tax

I think their proposals will punish elderly people who have lived in their homes for a long time. They speak about taxing wealth which means if your older and lived in your house for a long time, which may have went up in value, you will be punished because of the value of your house not because of your earnings. Just because you have lived in a house for a long time shouldn't mean you pay more tax. They also say assessments will be done on a yearly basis - what if the economy takes a knock and house prices go down - How will they make up any shortfall?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 14:38

Surely wealthy people should pay more tax even if (especially if?) they didn't work for that tax? It does even out to an extent - if you are in a mansion but not earning you'd be paying less in income tax.

peggyundercrackers · 02/04/2016 14:38

Are the SNP tracking us now?

They will be once they have their ID database up and running, they will also share and sell all your information on your behalf. The data they plan on storing is quit scary really - everything about you from cradle to grave will be recorded, even your DNA.

HirplesWithHaggis · 02/04/2016 14:40

Quite understand the wish not to vote for Tommy. Grin

I think it's worth looking at the actual candidates. I'd love to see Andy Wightman (Green) and Cat Boyd (RISE) in parliament, but neither is in my region.

peggyundercrackers · 02/04/2016 14:42

Sorry you don't get mansions for 200k. Yes you would save a massive £200pa from your pension on income tax but you would be £500pa worse off from the replacement council tax...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 14:43

I still don't understand why you think you shouldn't pay a tax based on the value of your property?

peggyundercrackers · 02/04/2016 15:01

Council tax is already based on the value of your property - the greens just seem to be trying to change what most people pay (anything valued at 125k is more expensive) up the way. I don't believe the value of your house indicates the level of your wealth.

Coffeethrowtrampbitch · 02/04/2016 15:02

I think there is little point in voting Scottish Labour, unless you enjoy history repeating itself.

We are back where we were in the 1980's, with a Tory government not voted for in Scotland, in a country where over £35 billion of public assets have been sold- just as housing stock was sold off in the eighties leading to a crisis which is still with us today.
The steel industry is being left to die in the same way that the coal industry was. That has cost us billions buying coal from overseas to run power stations. If the steel industry is allowed to close the same will happen.

Yes, Corbyn may get into power in 2020, but the country will be in huge amounts of debt (it's 1.6 trillion, up from 856 billion when Labour were last in power) and there is still an annual deficit which is unlikely to be gone in the next four years. So he would have to spend a lot of money to pursue socialist policies, and rebuild the welfare state, at a time when we will have no money. This will make them unpopular, Tories will accuse them of incompetence, and they will lost the next election, or the one after that, and we'll be governed by the Conservatives again.

I can't see any way out of this other than independence. This cycle is never going to change, and it is damaging for Scotland to be ruled by Tories we didn't vote for who don't act in our interests, or Labour governments scrambling to repair their damage.

I would consider voting Scottish Labour if Scotland had independence, and they apologised for the Iraq war (as Corbyn said he would do before he was elected), reinstate clause 4, and have at least some socialist policies.
Until that happens, I don't think voting for them will change a thing.

peggyundercrackers · 02/04/2016 15:10

Harvey was questioned about his property tax and older people during the debate - he said people who didn't have the money to pay for the tax could postpone it and the money/arrears they rack up can be recover from the sale of their house once they pass away or sell the house. So if lots of people postpone paying the tax where are councils going to get money from? What happens if the debt accrued is more than the value of your house? He didn't have the answers to these questions - sorry it sounds like a half baked idea.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 15:33

Council tax is already based on the value of your property - the greens just seem to be trying to change what most people pay (anything valued at 125k is more expensive) up the way. I don't believe the value of your house indicates the level of your wealth.

Houses haven't be revalued for donkeys years. People with more valuable houses should pay more than those in cheaper houses. At the moment, proportionally I think thay may pay less? I agree that council! Tax is far from ideal - land value tax would be a far better way of it administering it, based on the land your house sits on. It would be laid by owners rather than tenants and could potentially be deferred until the property is sold.

he said people who didn't have the money to pay for the tax could postpone it and the money/arrears they rack up can be recover from the sale of their house once they pass away or sell the house. So if lots of people postpone paying the tax where are councils going to get money from? What happens if the debt accrued is more than the value of your house? He didn't have the answers to these questions - sorry it sounds like a half baked idea.

There would obviously have to be some sort of transitional phase. Another way if handling it could be for an owner's to choose to continue paying council tax, when the property is sold it would then come under LVT.

As to councils raising money, I am also strongly in favour of some sort of local income tax administered by councils.

Obviously a lot of this depends on your point of view. I believe that the more wealth you have the more taxes you should pay (proportionally). I also believe in high tax rates in exchange for a high level of state provided services.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 02/04/2016 15:47

Harvey seems to be fundamentally opposed to anyone who owns anything or who earns more than the living wage.

The law on private letting will be changed in 2017. Harvey tried to introduce a proposal that landlords would never get their houses back. So any landlord needing to sell a house or move into their house could not do so. He and Wightman scare me - they are very hard left wingers.

And of course the Greens are in favour of legalising brothels.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 02/04/2016 15:49

he said people who didn't have the money to pay for the tax could postpone it and the money/arrears they rack up can be recover from the sale of their house once they pass away or sell the house. So if lots of people postpone paying the tax where are councils going to get money from? What happens if the debt accrued is more than the value of your house? He didn't have the answers to these questions - sorry it sounds like a half baked idea

Utterly unbaked. How on earth can a Council plan a budget that way?.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 02/04/2016 15:53

It would be laid by owners rather than tenants and could potentially be deferred until the property is sold

Yeah right, tenants don't use any local services do they? That is a ridiculous suggestion. The Government is threatening rent control, Scottish landlords already have far higher maintenance standards than in England and you are suggesting they pick up the tenants' occupier taxes as well.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/04/2016 15:55

rvey tried to introduce a proposal that landlords would never get their houses back. So any landlord needing to sell a house or move into their house could not do so.

If you mean that landlords should not be able to evict so that they can sell, that is a great idea IMO. Tenants should not lose their home when a landlord sells.

AnthonyBlanche · 02/04/2016 15:58

I agree Lass I really don't think th Scottish Greens have thought through their tax proposals.

And putting tax up to 43% for everyone earning over about £43k will result in lots of people seriously considering leaving the country. A 3% difference in tax over a few years would be a significant amount of money. if the Green Party proposals have any chance of coming to fruition I for one will seriously consider moving.

For those of you looking for a left alternative to labour, the Greens do look like your best bet. Certainly isn't the SNP.