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Original poster

Another Referendum?

86 replies

Elllimam · 30/04/2015 10:46

I'm not debating the positives or negatives of independence but I was wondering if the SNP does have a landslide victory in Scotland do you think they will be able to push through another referendum? I had assumed it would be a given but saw Ed Miliband yesterday had vetoed the idea of another vote. m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/ed-miliband-rules-out-new-scottish-independence-vote-1-3757507 I would have thought if the SNP were in control they could have held a referendum if they wanted to? Excuse my extreme political ignorance.

OP posts:

StaceyAndTracey · 30/04/2015 12:51

They won't need to , the English will Be begging is to leave . Every time I hear a scottish policitian interviewed during this campaign, they are asked

" but what about the English??? "

But english politicians are never asked what they will do for Scotland. They seem to have forgotten " Better Together " now it looks like we might actually have some influence at Westminster .

They want the people of scotland to get back in their box, but that's not going to happen . Not aftre 85% of us turned out to vote last time

This time, both yes and no voters want their vote to count and have their say . They won't be told to sit down and shut up anymore

StaceyAndTracey · 30/04/2015 12:53

I think that the scottish government has the power to hold another referendum if it wants to . But they need to get Westminster to agree to the be bound by the results .

Alwaysinahurrynow · 30/04/2015 17:03

Scotland cannot hold a binding referendum without agreement from the UK government -hence the Edinburgh agreement in early 2014.

My position should be that no referendum can be held unless Scotland can make an informed decision i.e. the currency and debt position are agreed in principle otherwise it will descend into recriminations like last time.

tabulahrasa · 30/04/2015 17:27

They're not standing on a platform for a referendum in the general election and even if every single scottish MP was an SNP one they wouldn't have the power in Westminster to declare one anyway.

frankie80 · 30/04/2015 18:08

People are voting SNP because they think they'll get another referendum. But the Westminster government has to agree and they won't.

So the SNP voters will be disappointed. They're voting for something that won't happen, at least not for a long time (hopefully never again).

The majority aren't that interested in SNPs policies, simply the hope of another referendum. You only have to look at Facebook posts to see this is the sole reason for the SNP surge.

tabulahrasa · 30/04/2015 18:39

I know quite a few people voting SNP, fully knowing that it won't bring about a referendum. The upsurge in popularity has much more to do with people having had enough of the current two party system. SNP just happen to be taking advantage of that.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/04/2015 18:43

I don't think this GE election will cause a referendum, no. I also don't think it'll be on the table at the next Scottish elections either.

The referendum was really, really close - if had swung the other way and been 55% yes I think the closeness would have caused difficulties. U can't see the SNP going for another referendum until 2020 at the earliest. They need to be pretty sure they are going to win by a decent margin, and they will need tume to put into practice what they learnt from the last referendum.

I do think independence is kind of inevitable now though, unless WM manages to successfully federalise the UK.

pinkje · 30/04/2015 18:51

Did I imagine it or was Referendum 2014 not billed as 'once in a lifetime'.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/04/2015 18:55

It was. I think everyone assumed that if it was a No vote, the SNP would be over.

If the people if Scotland want another referendum, then they should be allowed to have one.

pinkje · 30/04/2015 18:59

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Why?

AbbeyRoadCrossing · 30/04/2015 19:00

The thing that confuses me is there's been a referendum, with a big turnout, and a no vote. Then if there's another one a few years later isn't that a bit like calling a referendum until you get a yes? I mean if it was yes at the last one, there wouldn't be another one a few years later to check would there? Hoping that makes some sort of sense

pinkje · 30/04/2015 19:05

Well summed up abbey.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/04/2015 19:06

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Why?

If a smaller part of a country wishes to leave they should be able to. Self I determination/democracy etc.

Then if there's another one a few years later isn't that a bit like calling a referendum until you get a yes? I mean if it was yes at the last one, there wouldn't be another one a few years later to check would there?

But another referendum is not going to happen unless the people of Scotland want it (and if they do they should have the right to have as many referendums as they want). Remember a referendum will only happen again if a majority of MSPs support independence. In a PR system this will only happen if a majority of the population vote for Indy supporting MSPs. As soon as the Scottish get fed up with referendums they will start voting for unionist msps instead.

There is no way the SNP/greens/SSP can somehow force a referendum if they don't have a majority - and if they do then a referendum is their right.

Jackieharris · 30/04/2015 19:18

No.

They will have no bargaining power after the 7th. They have to agree to labours queens speech or they'll be accused of letting the Tories back in and it'll be 1979 all over again. They aren't going to make that mistake again.

It will take at least another 5 years to build up to another indeed again, at least one yes can win so the SNP have nothing to gain for pushing for it earlier. The earliest possible date will be autumn 2020.

Coffeethrowtrampbitch · 30/04/2015 19:34

No.

However I believe they will press for the right to hold another referendum.

As already stated, Holyrood had to borrow the power from Westminster to hold a referendum. I think they will ask for this power to be devolved, and if they promised not to use it during Labour's term they might get it.

I agree they won't then call another referendum until they are sure it will be a Yes vote.

tilliebob · 01/05/2015 08:28

I might just jump of the Forth Bridge if we have to go through another referendum. It was bloody awful and not inspiring or exciting in the slightest for me or my family and friends. I can still recall that sick feeling in my stomach as we sat all night watching the results come in. I feel like there's going to be referendum after referendum until we are badgering and brow beaten into it. Then I'll feel hounded out my own country.

But who cares? I'm just one of these traitorous cowardly No voters....

unlucky83 · 01/05/2015 08:50

tille that's one of the majority don't forget!
I think a lot of people are voting for the SNP because it is a GE and a referendum isn't on the cards.
A lot of people are voting for the SNP because it will be a mandate for another referendum....
All things to all men.
Which proves how good the SNP are at PR...'spin'
They also claim to be honest and straightforward, transparent - genuine. Looking after the interests of the poor...
Basically targeting Labour voters. I suspect they would have Tory policies ....if Scotland was a Tory stronghold.
They have no genuine cause to improve the lives of the poor in Scotland (why money was left in the budgets) - if people were content they wouldn't vote for a massive change....independence.
(Why I personally hate them....they are so fake, weasels. Last time I felt like this was in 1997....lots of similarities. I suspect a lot of SNP voters will come to regret it, just like those that voted for Blair then.)

Behooven · 01/05/2015 10:27

No. The people of Scotland as we seem to be called now already said no. That was the definitive answer.

StaceyAndTracey · 01/05/2015 10:31

I think we are using the phrase " people of Scotland " because it refers to everyone who lives here. It's to include everyone of any nationality or ethnicity , not just those who identify as Scottish .

It might be clumsy but it's inclusive

ASAS · 02/05/2015 13:14

I'll say that I am genuinely scared of some SNP supporters, now moreso than pre-ref. This is how wars start.

Eigg · 02/05/2015 13:21

Even if every seat declared for SNP, there wouldn't be another referendum in this term - it's not in their in their manifesto.

ScottishProf · 02/05/2015 14:13

Haven't seen this scenario mentioned yet, but it seems to me the only way there'd be another referendum on Scottish Independence before 2020:

this election results in Tory govt and promise of an in/out EU referendum
SNP Holyrood manifesto promises a referendum on SI if both (a) the UK as a whole votes to leave the EU and (b) Scotland votes to stay (perhaps by some specified margin)
SNP landslide at Holyrood
EU referendum goes as specified, UK voting to leave but Scotland voting strongly for staying.

AgentProvocateur · 02/05/2015 14:30

I agree Scottishprof that that's the only possible scenario for another referendum so soon. (are you my DH? We were discussing that about 20 minutes ago )

howabout · 02/05/2015 15:04

Most people I know voting SNP are assuming Labour will be able to form a minority government or even after all that has been said that their will be Labour with SNP support. This seems to be the assumption of most on this thread too?
My worry is that there will be a Conservative led government. If this is the case then a further referendum will be the least of our worries! I predict reform of the Barnet formula not in Scotland's favour and an I'll conceived rush through of English votes for English MPs leaving Scotland truly disenfranchised with very little bargaining power following the inevitable further referendum and yes vote from this massive constitutional change. For this reason I believe the current conservative party pose the greatest. threat to the union.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 02/05/2015 15:16

Tilliebob - that is exactly how I feel too. My mental health is still suffering as a result of the referendum and the possibility of another one. To be honest, I don't think we will stay in Scotland if ther's another.

Oh - and I think the 'once in a lifetime/generation' thing was because the 'Yes' campaign were so so sure they'd win that they didn't need to worry about any future ones.

I think, if there is another referendum, there must be a higher bar set. If Scotland is going to make such a serious change, then it has to be chosen by a big majority of the voters - ie. a minimum of 65%. Doing it on a simple majority could mean that Scotland is dragged out of the Union when nearly 50% of those who vote, want to stay in. I cannot see how you can make such an important and irrevocable decision if nearly half of the country are agin it.

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