Another Referendum?

[Elllimam]

I'm not debating the positives or negatives of independence but I was wondering if the SNP does have a landslide victory in Scotland do you think they will be able to push through another referendum? I had assumed it would be a given but saw Ed Miliband yesterday had vetoed the idea of another vote. m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/ed-miliband-rules-out-new-scottish-independence-vote-1-3757507 I would have thought if the SNP were in control they could have held a referendum if they wanted to? Excuse my extreme political ignorance.

I couldn't agree more, Trixy.

What sort of place is it to live in now, Trixy?

A million children forced into poverty in the last five years.

A government that no one in Scotland voted for, again, and the prospect of the party most of us have voted for not being allowed to participate in government.

I don't think Scotland has any future in a Union where it's people are treated as second class citizens and denied democracy.

I also don't think I'm alone, a recent survey found one in eight No voters will be voting SNP at this election.

It's not just Scottish children we should want a fairer society for the whole UK

I have never voted SNP but I have them, that is democracy

I have never been treated like or felt like a second class citizen, I don't know anyone IRL who actually thinks that, it's a soundbite. And again, democracy is getting the government the majority vote for, and not rerunning referenda? until a particular side get what they want.

Unfortunately you are not alone in feeling this way, that's the only point you made that I agree with.

Coffee -do you really think under the SNP it would be any better?
Cos I don't...
Especially if we were now an independent nation and been depending on the Oil revenue for income - it would have been a lean 6 months for all of us...
The SNP have money in the budget they aren't spending - if they really wanted to help the poor they wouldn't be underspending.

At the moment if any thing it is in the SNPs interest to make it worse for the poor of Scotland. If everyone was content they won't ever vote for change - for independence...

It's actually not a particularly nice place to live at the moment coffee, like others we are considering moving away. At least Scotland managed to dodge a massive bullet which has saved millions more being forced into poverty as Scotland and Scottish people would have been worse off if independent.

And if we're talking about denying people democracy then why are so many desperate to override the democratic voice of the people of Scotland who voted No?

And plenty of people in Scotland did vote for the current government if you look at the actual voting figures rather than the skewed picture given by the fptp system.

I don't feel denied democracy, I do feel let down by the modern Labour Party including Gordon Brown, but can't really pin that on Westminster.

I have tons (I may be exaggerating but too many to name!) of representatives in Holyrood, but that was no help when the local high school chose it's own "yooneek" take on CfE with parents not even allowed to ask questions!

Absolutely Trixy. The majority spoke and it's as if no one is listening. The immediate aftermath was all about people's disappointment, their anger, etc. If the vote had gone the other way I can't imagine many victors being sympathetic to my wishes or feelings. And the whole "once in a lifetime, oh hang on, we lost, let's carry on boys" mindset really annoys the hell out of me.

If the vote had gone the other way, would the pro-Unionists be getting another bite at the cherry? Of course they wouldn't.

Someone up-thread asked why people were thinking of leaving Scotland, rather than trying to repair divisions with friends and family. I have to answer that by saying that the last referendum, and this election, are seriously affecting my mental health - there have been other stress factors in my life, but it is these ones that are pushing me to the brink of serious depression again - somewhere I do not want to be.

If the next Holyrood parliament seeks another referendum, I think it would break me, to live through that again, and I have to look after my mental health, so my friends and family are not dealing with the aftermath of me doing something terrible and irrevocable. And no, I am not exaggerating - this is how bad it got for me last year, and another one would be so much worse.

I would hate to leave my life and my friends here (my family are in England), but I might have to.

I voted Yes and have voted (postally) for the SNP, but I neither expect nor desire another referendum at any point during the coming parliament, and I'm also very doubtful that one will happen. Everyone, on both sides, is weary, and I think it would lose the SNP a lot of popularity. I've voted for the SNP this time because I a) think they are more progressive than the other parties competing in my constituency and b) think they are best suited to ensuring that the promises made during the referendum r.e. further devolution will be kept.

I think the "unless circumstances change" caveat from NS is necessary, though, as there are contexts in which another referendum would be warranted - a "Yes" vote to leaving the EU, for example, if the Scottish vote taken alone was a "No".

provisionally that's one issue I have.
You support independence ...fine - vote for the SNP but there are people voting SNP who don't support independence. They are voting for them because 'there won't be another referendum' 'this is a GE' 'this isn't about independence'.

The SNP can't let the UK leave Europe, iScotland can't survive without being in the EU. It would struggle to get into Europe alone, it would help if it was already (still) part of a member state. Therefore if SNP has any power in Westminster they will block a vote on a UK wide EU vote etc, pave the way for independence 'by the back door'. Fine but be honest and upfront about it. And they are not being.
They truly are all things to all men, fantastic spin.

SD - I'm sorry to hear you have been so unwell and I would encourage you to get some help for your depression and mental health problems . Seriously, it's not usual to get clinical depression because of an election - if Jim Murphy can cope with this without becoming ill then so can you . Please don't make any life changing decisions when you are not thinking clearly .

Do get some help - there's lots out there but soemtimes you have to look hard for it or even fight for it . There are good support threads here on Mumsnet too .

Stacey there was more than one person unsettled by the referendum. If the outcome means a relocation of the family it might be seen as a bit patronising to tell others they should be cool with that.

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but itsall that is not true. I know plenty of people voting snp in this election who do not want another referendum and who were no voters. You are oversimplifying things.

I voted in the referendum on the basis that it was once in a generation, and if I wanted an independent Scotland this was my only chance to vote for it. I realise people want change, however I'm not sure what kind of radical change they expect to achieve in 8 months with a general election campaign thrown into the mix.

Selfishly, I hope that if there is another referendum it isn't until my children are through school. I will probably campaing in it again, but once the children are grown up it would be much easier to leave. It would be the end of my marriage but my husband is increasingly an arse anyway so I'm not sure that would make much difference.

Agree Stacey - I cried over the last referendum - I was in tears placing my vote. I am not clinically depressed. But we are settled here, happy here. I really don't want to leave.
No matter what anyone says the atmosphere was dreadful -and it was mainly YES voters. When the NO campaigners came round and asked me to put up a poster and I said I'd rather not they understood exactly where I was coming from. That level of intimidation.

And from everything I looked at independence from a financial point of view would be a disaster...austerity a picnic in comparison. The figures presented didn't add up - it was a wish not a sound plan. It would have been 20+ yrs of hardship for everyone in Scotland. I feared for the education and future of my children, for healthcare.
And sad to say -the situation would not be helped by people like me. I had a plan to relocate. Eg House on the market asap, cheap, even though we would lose money on it - before the market got saturated and the prices really tumbled...I even looked at houses in the area we were planning on moving to.
Purely selfish - but why should my children suffer such hardship when they had no choice in the matter? Let the 'majority' who wanted independence cope with the consequences.
Unfortunately us (tax paying) rats leaving the sinking ship would have made it even harder for the ones who stayed...
(And I felt a huge degree of sympathy for the poorest people - the ones who would suffer most - and others who couldn't leave.)

That was agreeing with Bakewell - not Stacey...

Unlucky - completely with you on the amount of stress that the referendum caused. We moved to Scotland just before the referendum was on the agenda and if we had known, we would not have moved here and we would have relocated in the event of a 'no' vote. DH and I both really love it here, and the stress of it all combined with late pregnancy was awful.

55% isn't a close run thing. It is a gap of 10% = when you see that the Labour and Tory parties are polling at just a 1% or two of a difference, that is close.

It took me a long time before I felt able to speak publicly (in RL and on social media) about my intention to vote against independence. There was a level of intimidation, and yes, I was called a traitor to my country.

I'm more worried that people will vote SNP, even though they don't want a referendum, and that is more likely to bring about another Tory/LibDem government. This would be a disaster for UK - as it could lead to an EU exit, and then onwards to another Scottish referendum.

EU exit would actually be worse, I think, on economic and political level.

How will voting SNP make another Tory government more likely?

I was pretty surprised when David Cameron said he wouldn't be PM without an EU referendum. I can't see the Lib Dems backing him in that, and the polling in the seats UKIP are targeting is not looking good. I wonder if he realises he has backed himself into a corner and is trying to flounce on a point of principle?

Fewer Labour seats. A lot of the negotiations post election may hinge on who has the larger number of seats of Labour v Conservative.

we wouldn't want another referendum, we were happy it was billed as a once in a lifetime event and were a little nervous about it as both my and DHs employers are English so we were concerned about how it might affect us.

as for SNP - they are an insidious and divisive party. I don't understand why people would vote for them. they cant run the country and can only play at being politicians because of the Scottish parliament. I was disappointed the leaders of the other parties started speaking about devolution - its not something I would agree with.

we have the party we voted for in power - hopefully this will continue and they will continue to lift the country out of the recession and get people back into jobs.

Traditional Labour voters who vote for SNP despite not wishing for another referendum mean that Tories may have more seats, and will push to remain in power. There are mumblings already - that's why he's been talking about a minority government of Labour with SNP support would not be 'legitimate'

hinge on who has the larger number of seats of Labour v Conservative

But it doesn't hinge on this? It is the party that can control a majority that leads. If the Cons get more seats than Labour and they try to lead, the combined Labour/SNP/etc can vote them down (probably even if they go back into coalition with the Lib Dems). The Cons can't rule if they can't get the votes in the House.