The vitriol for SAHPs on this site is insane

[JustSoFrustrated]

So many insisting it “isn’t work” and that we’re lazy, calling us “leeches” on our spouses, saying that “housework doesn’t take that long” and assuming we’re either “faffing about” or filling our time with made-up work or leisure activities…

Honestly, I wish they could all take a turn doing what I do each day and see if they still think it isn’t work or that it only takes “two hours max” daily to keep the house running—Someone told me that it only takes 20 minutes to hoover the entire house! I was like, I could do maybe one room in 20 minutes. Are they not picking things up off the floor first or moving furniture?? It also makes me imagine that their homes are TINY, and that they don’t have much of a garden, or at least not one that’s their responsibility to maintain. They also all have older, more independent children and seem to have forgotten how much supervision and assistance young children need, and how much of a mess they make constantly.

Someone else was like, “It takes five minutes per meal to do the dishes,” and I thought, what the hell are they feeding their kids? Maybe if you microwave cans of soup, or pop a tray of chicken nuggets in the oven on a single sheet pan, or boil pasta in one pot and then dump a jar of sauce over it… And that’s fine to do every once in a while, but not for every meal. If you’re actually cooking cooking— you know, chopping fruits and veggies, working with meat, cooking different components to a meal in the way they taste best, serving them on real dishes, with real cutlery to eat with… Dishes are gonna take you more than 5 minutes per meal, even with a dishwasher (Unless they’re just popping their dishes and cookware in without rinsing them off at all?? In which case I’m assuming their dishwashers are rank inside!)

And when you explain to them, this is how much work I have to do, and how much time it takes me, they either start concluding you’re “plodding around”/doing it inefficiently/incorrectly, or they’ll start suggesting that you downsize your life so that you’re less busy… presumably so you can get “a real job.” But that’s totally not the point; why would I make it so my family has a less enjoyable or less luxurious life, and see my DC less, just so I can go to work to make money that we don’t really need?

I’m tempted to just start insisting to WOHP that their houses must be disgustingly dirty and that they’re obviously cleaning wrong if it takes them so little time… or that they’re “faffing around” at work all day, because obviously if families with SAHP can live comfortably on one income, then their work must be really inefficient…

But that wouldn’t be reasonable, would it?

Op, who are these "people", which bit of "mn"? I have been here donkey's years and don't deny there are periodic debates about sahms/wohms and the occasional veiled (or not) judgement. The level of vitriol you describe though, I just haven't seen it. "Idle", "lazy", etc - can you actually tells us which threads or posts have actually laid into sahms like this? If there are posts like like I bet they were well squashed at the time, the same as I'd expect sweeping attacks on wohms to be robustly challenged.

We are supposed to wash and not just scrape our plates before putting them in the dishwasher?! (Crusted on pots etc are different).

I don't like the "you've been leeching off him" comments either. But only the people in a relationship really know what's going on.

What i often see is the realisation that a woman has been coerced into being a SAHP and then realising after a long time, she's cut off from support networks, has been out of the job market too long and is facing a tenuous financial future.

And i get it that if you have decided with your DH or partner that you will be the SAHP and he will earn - then if he leaves, it stings when you basically get post after post of "well, we did warn all of you about this kind of thing". But that is the nature of the MN-beast i think.

What i would like to see is a planet full of fulfilled women, with good partners, all pulling their weight so everyone mostly gets to have the life they wanted.

@JustSoFrustratedmicroplastics?! Have you not got the memo all plastic is awful and scourged from your kitchen already? I’ve managed to do that despite working full time as a single parent 😏

MN is full of insecure parents trying to justify decisions. SAHMs convincing themselves their decision is right - and hey, guess what, us slaves to our careers also beat ourselves up around what we can and cannot do too. Your life could absolutely be more efficient, but you’ve made choices to - as you say - make life more enjoyable and luxurious for your family. The same way as if I told you all about my life I’m sure you’d find ways to critique it and feel sorry for me and DS 😂 Thankfully I can do without your criticism (wildly off the mark FYI, believe it or not we use cutlery in this house, are mostly UPF free, and - here’s the kicker - the house is both clean AND not tiny. With under 2h of work on it a day. Who would’ve thought?!)

I do think privilege kicks in as well. You’re hugely privileged to be in your position whether you acknowledge it or not (financially, plus having a partner who didn’t walk out/change after having kids which seems to account for a lot of SOs on here) ~ the criticism you’re seeing is often from people with a chip on their shoulder eager to prove to you that despite not having a choice, they can do it all, their children won’t suffer from their decisions. and you could too you just chose not to. Damn right you do, and why shouldn’t you? It’s what works for you and your family.

Life doesn’t need to be as hard as humanly possible - I’m sure your children benefit from better rested parents (as your partner it seems doesn’t need to split chores!), as well as the perks of having a doting SAHM. My DS benefits from seeing my work ethic and enthusiasm for my job - and the added bonus is we, you know, have money and are not homeless. I also make decisions to make life as easy and peaceful as possible - we all do.

I have seen far more subtle and not so subtle vitriol aimed at working mothers on this site.

’what’s the point of having kids if you never see them’
’paying someone else to raise them’
’nursery is damaging to young children’s brains’
’be less selfish and put your kids first instead of your career’
’Anyone can be at home with their kids if it’s what they REALLY want, it’s clearly not what you really want’

etc etc.

I think the amount of vitriol aimed at SAHMs is about a tenth of that aimed at working parents. And your post is case in point!

Meghan maybe. Now Harry is paying for his own security.

I only learned this recently. And am very happy I did.

I don't have kids through choice, and also don't understand the hatred for SAHMs on this site.
They are doing important work (that I can't be arsed to do!)
As long as their husband's salary covers theirs, it's noone else's business.
I've just dropped down to a 4 day week, and will be spending my Fridays from now on hiking, going to the gym, watching TV and doing my nails! Should I be hated for this, as I'm not slogging my guts out 5 days a week in paid employment?

I work two days a week, so I guess am a semi SAHM. I consider myself very lucky to be able to spend so much time with my children (especially as they're still preschoolers) and am definitely jealous of those who get to do it full time, but would never argue that it's harder being at home. I'm not as fastidious about housework, I prefer to spend the time with my children. I'd never take 20 minutes to hoover a room! I cook from scratch most days but fairly simple stuff that doesn't take a whole lot of prep and clean up. Id suggest looking I to Parkinson's Law - work expands to fill the time available.

This.

We are so used to being incessantly judged that anyone making a different choice seems like criticism and so many jump on the defence. The UK has a bit of a culture of playing the suffering Olympics too, very few people focus on the joys of parenthood, it's all about who has it harder like anyone will be handing out medals.

You are this poster and you didn’t get any vitriol, any criticism wasn’t because you are a SAHM it’s because you vastly over egged what ‘housework’ is and have deliberately tailored your SAHM experience to be as labour intensive as humanly possible and then come on MN to whinge and suggest that WOHMs live in filth and aren’t educating or caring for their kids.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5322846-working-parents-tell-me-about-your-life?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

again - why are you rinsing the dishes?

As a full time working parent, with 2 x dcs, a 4 bed house and large garden and no maid, cook, cleaner or childcare.
I can confirm my house is a mess 😂

What type of food do you tend to eat, OP? Maybe it's your preferred cuisine that's generating a lot more washing up?

I’ve been both a stay at home parent and (currently) a working parent. Both are hard in different ways but come on, stop being a martyr! This is what pisses people off.

I home school our 9 year old, in Italy where exams and the national curriculum are mandatory. We do both the Italian and UK curriculums. I also run a small holding, with most of our own fruit and veg, chickens, chainsaw firewood, have rebuilt the whole house, and do all the housework, cleaning, cooking, washing every day. Also daily bike rides, gym, climbing sessions and swimming with our son, along with shopping, taxi services and DIY. My wife works full time, she's Italian and knows the language better, so I'm at home doing everything else. I do shit loads in a day, and still have time to talk shit in broken Italian to the neighbors, watch YouTube, play piano, do Duolingo, and be entertained by Mumsnet. I can blitz the whole house in half an hour, and it isn't small. I bloody love my life though, and don't miss the world of office work one bit. I'm not suggesting anyone is lazy, more bored, unhappy and maybe unfulfilled. If you're genuinely motivated it's amazing how much can be packed into a day.

It's just jealousy, and people pretending they've never seen it on this site are not genuine, are they.

If people are blooming in a career they love, they don't have time or don't care to try to bring others down. It's the one who are disorganised, guilty, and just plain jealous who come and troll.
Warning people to be mindful to stay financially independent is vey good advice. Anything else is just jealous spite.

I have seen posters calling SAHM "prostitutes"! You have to be vey bitter and miserable in your own life to go there. Shame when it's directed to someone struggling who doesn't need the abuse.

It gets even more nasty when the poster has school-age children. The jealousy goes onto another level. Pity them, don't take it personnally.

I have been both, SAHM and working mum, you absolutely get more abuse on this site for being a SAHM.

@PoppyBaxter nope- sounds great!! Enjoy

Why do you need other people to validate your life choices? Why do you imagine WOHPs aren’t doing exactly what you’re doing in terms of cooking, rearing their children and household grunt work, just more efficiently?

I don’t see vitriol for SAHP much at all on here really, I see people mention financial vulnerability which doesn’t apply to me or people saying that they couldn’t stay at home because it wouldn’t be fulfilling for them and again that’s totally fair enough.

Being able to be a SAHP by choice is absolutely a luxury that I feel grateful for, I get to spend loads of time with my children, doing nice things and seeing our friends without any work related worries. It’s not always easy, it can be quite mentally and physically tiring after a difficult day but I would still prefer that to having to go and do a job that I don’t enjoy.

I personally don’t do much housework in the day when I’m looking after my children as they take up a huge amount of my attention so I just do it in the evenings anyway when DH has finished work.

I’m a SAHM to a 4 year old with SEN and an almost 2 year old so they are a lot of work at the moment but it’s still easier in my opinion than having to go to work, certainly more enjoyable for me personally. Your post seems to have quite judgemental and unkind undertone to it.

This hit the nail on the head i think.

It also massively depends on the age of the children. SAHP with young children at home will do slightly more housework as they will be cleaning up the mess made by toddlers during the day and making lunch etc but SAHP with school age children will have more free time during the day than WOHP, there is a huge difference between the 2. Im a SAHM to a toddler at the moment, hard work but I love it. But I do notice the posts and a nerve is definitely hit when people say “how are you enjoying being a lady of leisure” etc, however if I had gone back to work I would have found the “paying someone else to look after your children” posts awful so it really is swings and roundabouts. All parents choose their compromise

OP - are you MossLover who posted about what working parents do in a day? You sound very similar.

I'm really not going to ever look back on my life and regret not pulling the furniture out everytime I hoovered! Get a life FFS

You are not supposed to rinse your plates before putting them in the dishwasher, look it up if you don't believe me. And, no your dishwasher won't be disgusting inside 😀. It just shows you don't know how to clean, so sort of contradicting yourself. Or did you post to just rub in the fact you have a luxurious life and a big house..

I don't judge SAHPs but I do view a completely spotless show-home as a sign of a very empty life. If I were lucky enough to afford not to work, you certainly wouldn't catch me hoovering for 2 hours!

@lizzyBennet08 and I’ve been in the past to many a SAHM home that was a grubby messy home too - many years ago I did community nursing for about 8 weeks - a bit of an eye opener-the idea all SAHMs are out there cleaning the house top to bottom every day and prepping nutritious non UPF home cooked meals every night simply wasn’t the case- , it’s hard going with very small kids at home all day but it simply isn’t the case that they all spent all day cleaning and cooking chef level meals or flower arranging or whatever . Just as it’s not the case that all working parents have lower standards around the house and feed the kids on chicken nuggets and beans every night

Were you forced to be a SAHP? Or have you had the luxury of choice? Does someone force you to hoover every room every day? Or is it your choice to?

I WFH and do everything around that, including spending too much time on MN. I cook from scratch almost every day. I deliberately pick recipes that won't take long because I am not a slave to the kitchen. But everything is fresh, rarely do I use any premade sauces or similar because they give me migraines. I have a 5 bed house with 4 bathrooms, 2 sitting rooms, a study and large garden. I keep it clean in about 3 hours a week plus a couple in the garden, with an occasional bit of extra in between. It certainly doesn't need someone full time and while it may not be a show home, it is clean and tidy. I also fit in working from my elderly mother's house, helping her with her housework one day a week and a day at the weekend. And have a second part time community role.

By all means be a SAHP with the inherent risks involved for your long term financial security. But don't criticise those of us who are more time efficient.