’Ultimatum’ proposals / engagements - do they work out?

from what i've seen the subsequent divorces are spectacular

It's got to be a bad start. But then I have no idea why you'd base your personal life on an ultimatum and no idea what's wrong with women proposing in the first place.

I never understand the "not ready" for marriage if people are in a relationship with kids, or if its been a long relationship. Surely it just means "not ready to marry YOU"!

I know one woman who booked her wedding, told her partner the date and said propose by 12 months before this date or we split

To be fair he then did a romantic proposal flew her to Rome as a "surprise" but still she had to tell him to propose

Anyway in all honestly being married to him has been a nightmare, he's a selfish unhelpful partner. She couldn't see beyond the desire to be married to see ye actually wasn't a catch

And now she wants out

I've been in sort of that situation before in a long distance relationship that had gone on for years with me travelling back and forth. Essentially, if I was going to relocate away from friends and family then I wanted a commitment and the stability of marriage. So he felt under duress, but proposed when I finished Uni and I moved to be with him.

And he bottled it when it came to getting married. I was devastated and moved back. Sorted my life out, and the minute I started seeing someone new, guess who turned up ready to start over?

If I had it to do over again, I'd have stayed put, got a post Uni job where I lived, and put the relationship on the back burner. I learned my lesson about chasing men. If he's Mr Right, he'll just have to put the effort in himself.

I've never met anyone who has admitted to doing done this tbh.

I do think in cases like @WhoWants2Know, I'd also feel as if I wanted a commitment if I was going to move away from family and friends for a guy. So I get that one.

I also wouldn't have had any babies with a man I wasn't married to unless my salary was enough to survive on and pay for all childcare etc. Mine still isn't high enough on its for that and we don't even use that much childcare as kids are at school! Part of the reason for that is having some horrible luck like redundancy while a few months into my maternity leave and graduating in a crap year for graduate job hunting yada yada. But also, part of the reason is having children full stop and a bit having to be near DH work which he can't do 100% remotely and property prices and bills here are ££££. So I'd have been buggered before I'd have had babies before we got married. So whether the marriage survived or not, I'd take the marriage based on an ultimatum over none if I was planning a family.

We got married fairly young and didn't have DCs for years, so it wasn't an issue for us. But it would have been an issue for me if he'd wanted DCs but not marriage. I know lots of people do it but I wouldn't have

The only one I know of resulted in them getting married and he had a 2 year affair one year in. She stayed with him.

I sort of did this - was placed in a training programme miles away from home, the only criteria they accepted for a transfer back were marriage or childbirth, so I asked DH which of the two he wanted to do and he opted to get married 🤣

To be fair we had been living together for years by that point, and knew we planned to stay together. He is just not very dynamic - he was completely on board with the wedding and is very happy we are married (15 years now). Just needed a push to actually do it.

I’ve always said if a man wants to marry you, you will know. None of this together 10 years not engaged yet, or his not ready but you’ve got a mortgage and or a child. If he wanted you to be his wife you would know.

Either he doesn’t want marriage or he doesn’t want it with you and your a place marker same as men who want kids but not yet, in five years, oh but let’s move first, oh I need this promotion first. He either doesn’t want them at all or just not with you.

Half the time the relationship then breaks down and his married with a baby on the way within the next year ish.

Those that do get married after say 30 years are crossing the T’s and dotting the i’s for paperwork in old age or the ultimatum type where the wife 9/10 ends up not happy with the marriage anyway 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’ve known two men, with their wives for about 8 years pre marriage, got to early thirties and no proposal. Both wives just booked the church. Men went along with it. Both ended up cheating throughout the entire marriage. One couple now divorced.

the other, they’re still ‘trying’ 1.5 years post affair(s) discovery. Despite the fact he has never been faithful. Cheated throughout both her pregnancies and the death of her mother. He was clearly in love with his last affair partner but stays because they have kids now. Sad really.

if a man actually wants to marry you, you will know.

A bit like @Saschka I got fed up waiting for DH to " "be ready", we were late 20s and had been living together for years. So I moved 500 miles away for a job and basically said it was up to him whether he joined me ( accomodation came with the job). I was prepared to go it alone of I had to but hoped I wouldn't have to.
I actually got a lot out of being on my own, and actually didn't give DH an answer right away when he did ask me ( after missing me a lot!).
Worked out well in the end, that was 27 years ago.

i think you've nailed it - when people are genuinely wanting to spend the rest of their lives together (and are not opposed to marriage as an institution) the dont date for 10 years and then one party forces the marriage

I'm one of the people you are referring to (although less then 10 years). I don't consider my relationship as "dating". We live together and share life together. We want to get married but it's a huge undertaking as we are from abroad and cost of few expensive trips back home to organise it plus some reception for family etc meant it went down on priority list, especially because of lock down. (Please don't tell me I can just pop to local registry office because it's not the case).
It was mainly my idea to postpone the wedding despite both of us being definitely in favour of instruction of marriage.
We have a child but we both work and we don't own a home. I have assets he doesn't. While I understand the importance of marriage in a long run, especially with a child as anything can happen, I never doubted or doubt his intentions to marry me or to be committed to me. It's just going to be later then we wanted but that doesn't change anything for our futures.

I have literally zero insecurities about my relationship, about the commitment and I absolutely feel and know that my partner loves me, is faithful to me and wants to be with me and only me.

What I do get insecure about tho is people like you who assume that my relationship is less committed, less solid and who judge me based on that or make similar comments. It happens on this page almost every time I visit here.

Also I believe that marriage should come from the deep feeling of knowing that both partners love, respect and are committed to each other rather then being treated as a proof of those. I don't need proposal or marriage to know that my partner loves me and wants to be with me, it's just something that symbolically and practically has a benefits to me and luckily we are both on the same page when it comes to wanting that.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with a frank conversation if marriage is important to you. I also don’t think there is anything wrong with “internal” ultimatums, for example, my DP was taking his time formalising his divorce - they’d been separated for some years when we met and there were some good reasons it had dragged out a bit but I didn’t frame it as an ultimatum, just made it clear how I felt. I then internally thought to myself, if it gets to xx and there hasn’t been any progress, I will need to make a decision. I certainly wouldn’t want to receive a proposal that was forced!

@Lili132 I wouldn't think that every long term relationship is "not stable" if people are not married - as you've mentioned, that is your intention, and it's the circumstances that is holding you back. You both said you want it and to me that's the crucial difference

I was thinking more about relationships that just float through time with no direction - no solid plans for future until either party gets fed up (often as a result of an unplanned pregnancy). There is no talk about actual love or commitment, just two people who find it easier to pay rent if they live together

By the sound of it, you wouldn't need to force your partner to marry you by giving him an ultimatum

Most people are terrified of ending up alone, and on the dreaded apps trying to find someone. Lots settle, convincing themselves that it is love when really it's just convenience. How can you "promise" to love someone "forever" if you're basing your marriage on "love" rather than financial security (as originally that's what marriage was and to an extent is still about).

I do know one couple in this situation. Lived together for quite a few years with no commitment from him. This was her second relationship, with grown children, he never had any. She eventually got what she wanted, and they seem happy enough.

They did own property together by then, so I can see why she wanted the relationship to be legal. I think he was just uncaring about the actual process of getting married.