April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

My mother and I haven't spoken since she hung the phone up on me a few months ago, since when the scales have fallen from my eyes and everything's become clear.

I've said that our relationships is causing my mental health to dip and asked for time and space and to heal. I've made clear that I'm not ready to discuss this and I don't know if I will ever be.

This evening, my enabling (but also narc) father just came uninvited to my house and told me, when I said it was disrespectful of him to turn up uninvited and force a conversation I made very clear I wasn't ready for, told me that I'm a acting like a spoilt child.

I'm 48.

@HatchlingDragon it's amazing the feeling and only once you are on the other side do you see the damage the duty weekly phonecall causes. The penny just dropped and I just thought why am I doing this to myself. Like you say the call was formulaic nice and polite to start then revving up in criticism and provocative comments. Them saying something off the scale vile,me reacting and being rewarded with a sensitive,difficult label or a passive aggressive laugh.

Try even if you can to skip it for a week,what's the worst they can do, can't be much worse than what they are doing to you now.

No good comes of us dutiful daughters sacrificing our sanity every week doing the duty call. They've never brought it up that I stopped,one sister still does it weekly and the other phones about once every two months.

It is very hard when you are a nice person and feel you should do it for your elderly parents. But no more I am not taking it,the peace for me and my family is immeasurable. Good luck xc

@grizzletopsy It's very hard when you want a narc parent to understand, but they absolutely refuse to listen. Sadly you can't do anything about that, you can only change how you behave and react.

I sent my "mother" carefully considered letters (refused to speak to her in person or on the phone after she snarled at me that if I was a proper mother she'd have a better relationship with her grandchildren {who she was completely disinterested in or critical of}). She ignored anything I said about myself, how hurt I was by her accusation, and she completely avoided any suggestion of taking responsibility. My 4 letters over 6 months were kinder to her than she deserved but still she ignored how I felt, ignored any questions to her, ignored my suggestion of seeing a counsellor with or without me. Her final letter to me called me a liar, denying what she'd said, and told me to leave her alone - which I was happy to do.

There is no "winning" with these people, there isn't even a break-even. They are out to get you and will annihilate you for not behaving as they require. In my case, I've been ostracised by all but one of her family which has been very hard to come to terms with, although I now realise that they only cared about me conditionally, as soon as I didn't behave as they required (i.e. accept whatever abuse), then I was out.

I really feel for you having a father with narcissistic traits as well as your mother. They really know what buttons to push - as Attila here often says, they installed those buttons. I would imagine it felt quite violating having him turn up at your door. Do you have or could you get something like a Ring doorbell or a camera you can speak through? The less he/they can get out of you the better, if he calls and gets ignored repeatedly he will run out of steam. But any interaction with you is giving him narcissistic supply.

Others may have suggestions but in my experience writing to explain achieves nothing, they will not accept anything that doesn't suit their view on things. Also they will use things against you. I imagine someday I will find out how my "mother" has twisted things against me, already I know she has been playing the victim, crying when someone asks if she has heard from me - but not telling them what she said that was the straw that broke the camel's back, and definitely not telling them she called me a liar and told me to leave her alone.
So tread carefully and put yourself first. Your mother is receiving the consequences of her actions, don't feel guilty about this.

Bookmark.

@grizzletopsy I hear you completely. I think that is what I am afraid of. My mental health is fragile (assisted by their actions when I was a child/teenager/young adult) lots of abandonment. Need to get to the point where we don't care what happens when the button is pushed. The spoilt/selfish child comment is definitely the thing to make you fall in line.

If I understand correctly how this works, by not caring or reacting to the selfish/spoilt child because you can choose not to, it breaks the rope. You need to be strong enough to accept the fall out. You already have been damaged so actually no further damage is caused the trauma makes it feel that way.

You now see that seemingly little comments or points were there to manipulate you all along. I'm a similar age and the shame I didn't see it before, still want to be a good person makes me feel so foolish.

And for the record Stately Mansion I am entirely over being that good person. When I hear that from them it makes me cringe. Anyone else joining the rebellion?

Really interesting and poignant read for me @Escapingafter50years - it's a shame that your mum could not take on board the damage she has done

I sent a letter myself yesterday after my father has threatened to turn up uninvited to see his DC who is almost 2 and who he's never bothered with until now. Essentially it was me telling him that I wanted no further contact and explaining I've had poor mental health trying to recover from my childhood that I feel was emotionally neglectful and mentally/physically abusive. I didn't blame him specifically, obviously my mother has a part to play too - they enabled each other. It was short and to the point; you'd be bad for my mental health and a bad influence on my children, I never gave you my address, don't contact me again.

It's really unsettled me. I feel guilty, and I'm now questioning everything. Like was it all really that bad? He was a total bully, a tyrant, always angry, controlling, he was inappropriate with me when I was very young and definitely was not adverse to dishing out physical punishments (to me and my sibling), threaten to poison us, he physically assaulted me as a teenager too, he was racist, misogynist, and body shaming, he constantly photographed me and shamed me for my body, controlled what I wore, as parents they offered no support, guidance or direction, they weren't interested in stuff with school, or my friends, there was no soft place to land, the home felt more like a prison and was devoid of love and joy, there was no u conditional love and I felt like I was in the dog house most the time, they threw me out at 18 and I went off to uni and never looked back, when I had some severe mental health issues in my twenties eg attempted suicide they never got me the help I needed, everything was brushed under the carpet. He also sent me letters all the time when I was at uni, absolutely full of venom and anger towards me.
My mum was terrible too but in different ways, completely mentally absent, and often physically absent, leaving us alone or supervised from a very young age, obviously miserable as fuck being married to a beast, but it's no excuse. She was volatile and physical. She did nothing to build a bond with me and barely took us anywhere. Just a very cold, hostile person. Neither had any friendships which meant we were pretty isolated and missing out on normal social interactions to model.
Anyway I've hardly spoken to my dad in 10 years because it's just untenable with him, with my mum it's be ok until I had kids then the old toxic traits have come out again, so I am very low contact with her.
Even though I know I had a horrible, miserable childhood, I still feel really icky calling it out even if it's to justify why I am going no contact. Also those terms emotional neglectful, mental/physical abuse, they are strong but they feel like the tip of the ice berg of what really went on. Anyway I don't expect my father to recognise any of this or feel one iota of remorse or accountability. My one sole aim is to stop him coming anywhere near us. I had PND with my first child and am pregnant again, one of my invasive thoughts was him breaking into our house and hurting me/my DC. I can feel all this anxiety flooding back and it's really hard. It's probably irrational but now i've poked the bear what's he going to do. What can I do to protect my family? What measures can I take?

In reality he will prob not show the letter to anyone in my family, for my enmeshed sibling it would maybe cause him to question his childhood and what impact it has on his own poor mental health today. For my step mum maybe it would make her question him and how much contact she gives him to her own grandchildren. I should think he will just destroy or hide the letter, and not try again to contact me.

I never even gave him my address, and reminded him of this in my letter.

It was short and to the point, it wasn't horrible but was factual according to me. There is just so much under the surface that I had to gloss over. It feels scary and also unsatisfying.

I know I am going to have to deal with my mum in the same way at some point.

Going no contact is just so hard. I am just gutted that my parents still have the power to make me so miserable. I feel l can never escape them.

I had a day out with my sister yesterday and we were just discussing how the only happy childhood memories we have are of things we did with our dad and absolutely nothing with our mother (I can't call her mum as that sounds like a nice person)
She controlled every aspect of our lives, made decisions for us - even after I was married and left home!
Why do people have children if they're not going to be nice to them?

She was a toxic narcissist and neither of us shed a tear or felt remotely upset when she died. In fact we felt a great sense of relief that we wouldn't have to put up with her any more.

I can't stand the "You only get one mum lobby". Not all mothers are the same.

I would recommend everyone who contributes to this thread and who has been abused mentally, physically or both to read this book:
People of the Lie by M Scott Peck MD.
It changed my life when I realised what I was living with and how to deal with it.

This is a horror story of sustained emotional violence, physical abuse and neglect of a child throughout their childhood.

It seems you have complex PTSD and no surprise that the impact of this violence with zero support and nurturance has left your MH fragile.

Maybe keep it simple and envision your DF as some sort of wild vicious animal that you need to protect yourself from physically. I would get a ring doorbell and I would be ready to call the police. Maybe even speak to them ahead that you are concerned for physical violence and harassment. I believe your concerns are valid and I would never open the door to him. I would tell him to leave. Never contact you again and if he doesn’t call the police.

I also think that you need some serious MH support for trauma - such as EMDR if you haven’t already.

Your job is reparenting yourself as best you can so that you can rid the emotional flashbacks and intrusive thoughts which are paralysing and will drain your life. Focus on doing anything to keep you calm and balanced so that you can enjoy your life and motherhood.

I would also NC your DM.

We all only have finite time, emotional energy and headspace - conserve and prioritise it for your emotional growth and stability and invest in your growing new little family - there is no capacity for thoughts, emotions or dealing with your parents.

You will have enough to deal with as you raise your own DC and it becomes even more stark and apparent when you recall what happened to you at their ages you will feel emotional pain for yourself. That’s going to be tough.

@scroogemcfuckaduck

It's really unsettled me. I feel guilty, and I'm now questioning everything. Like was it all really that bad?

Its normal to question your reality when this was your ‘normal’. However when any thoughts come into your mind that you are possibly unreasonable pull up this list from your phone to sense check:

1. He was a total bully,
2. a tyrant,
3. always angry,
4. controlling,
5. he was inappropriate with me when I was very young
6. and definitely was not adverse to dishing out physical punishments (to me and my sibling),
7. threaten to poison us,
8. he physically assaulted me as a teenager too,
9. he was racist,
10. misogynist,
11. and body shaming,
12. he constantly photographed me
13. and shamed me for my body,
14. controlled what I wore,
15. as parents they offered no support, guidance or direction,
16. they weren't interested in stuff with school, or my friends,
17. there was no soft place to land,
18. the home felt more like a prison
19. and was devoid of love and joy,
20. there was no u conditional love and
21. I felt like I was in the dog house most the time,
22. they threw me out at 18 and I went off to uni and never looked back,
23. when I had some severe mental health issues in my twenties eg attempted suicide they never got me the help I needed, everything was brushed under the carpet.
24. He also sent me letters all the time when I was at uni, absolutely full of venom and anger towards me.
25. My mum was terrible too but in different ways,
26. completely mentally absent,
27. and often physically absent,
28. leaving us alone or supervised from a very young age,
29. obviously miserable as fuck being married to a beast, but it's no excuse.
30. She was volatile and physical.
31. She did nothing to build a bond with me and barely took us anywhere.
32. Just a very cold, hostile person.
33. Neither had any friendships which meant we were pretty isolated and missing out on normal social interactions to model.

Emotional detachment is absolutely key to the recovery process. We have all been so deeply programmed that our reactions to the toxic behaviour of our family members is visceral.

Before going NC, I used to get horrible building anxiety knowing that I really ought to ring my mother, and I would leave it for days and days until picking up the phone, which I really didn’t want to do. I had nothing to say to her. It was the dreaded “duty call”. She was vile to me, and violent, until I left home at 17. Yet would then be phoning me, wailing “when are you coming home?”

And the passive-aggressive crap that used to come through the post from Toxic Sister made me feel physically sick. Classics included a birthday card addressed to one of my adult DC, who hadn’t lived at home for years. The card was sent over a month late, contained a torn ten pound note, and the message was about how hard everything was for her and how grandma had been ill. I mean, what the fuck?

I moved away and nobody has my address. But still the tentacles reach out.

@Escapingafter50years is right. There is no winning or breaking even. These people are emotional parasites. They are empty inside and incapable of empathy or healthy relationships.

You’ve sent the letter @scroogemcfuckaduck Now take a deep breath and try to put it out of your mind. Let that be the last communication. He was, and remains, a highly abusive man. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. None of it is your fault. In view of the level of abuse you were subjected to, if he ever bothers you again I would seek a Non-Molestation Order or similar legal vehicle to ban him from contacting you.

Going no contact is really hard. But it’s better than staying in the endless cycle of abuse.

Solidarity to all. x

https://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/violence-against-women-and-international-law/domestic-violence-injunctions/

@scroogemcfuckaduck have a read of the definition of domestic violence and the legal options you have open to you.

From the above link. Note that harassment has a ‘low’ threshold - there is no need to endure this behaviour.

What is harassment?
Harassment is a course of conduct that is deliberately intended to cause a person distress or alarm. A course of conduct means two or more incidents of harassment.
When deciding whether any particular course of conduct amounts to harassment, the court will consider whether a reasonable person, looking at the behaviour from outside the situation, would think that it amounts to harassment.
An incident of harassment could be a range of things, for example:

• a text, answer-phone message, letter or email
• a comment or threat
• standing outside someone’s house or driving past it
• an act of violence

What is putting someone in fear of violence?
Putting someone in fear of violence is a course of conduct that causes another person to fear that violence will be used against them. A person is guilty of putting you in fear of violence if their behaviour is such that a reasonable person, with the same information, should know that the behaviour would cause you to have that fear.

How can I get protection from harassment and being put in fear of violence?
You can report an incident of harassment or being put in fear of violence to the police. The police may give your abuser a warning of the consequences of his behaviour or arrest him for the criminal offences of harassment or putting someone in fear of violence.
If the case ends up in the criminal courts and there is a trial then the courts can make a restraining order. The court can make a restraining order if your abuser is found guilty or if he is acquitted (found not guilty) of the offence. The lawyer from the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) can request the restraining order.
A restraining order can prohibit your abuser from doing anything specified in the order including using or threatening violence against you, communicating you (by phone or email) or going to certain places (your home or place of work). For more information on the criminal justice process see Reporting an offence to the police: A guide to criminal investigations.

I was thinking of writing a letter to my late mother outlining all the horrible things she'd done to me and how her controlling behaviour has affected my whole life.
Then I was going to burn it and never think or speak of her again as s sort of finality to it all. Otherwise if will keep eating away at me.

Would that be a good idea?

I think this would be really cathartic - might also be good to write where you have grown through and pushed past the emotional injuries she inflicted on you - so you see yourself as the survivor (even if it’s a work in progress) rather than the subjugated victim of her.

Would also ceremoniously burn a picture of her with the letter … but maybe that’s just me being too OTT

Please help me

I have made a big mistake and need some advice please. I have been NC with sister for around 4 years. She has had a terrible impact on my mental health and scapegoated me and blame shifted from an early age. She is abusive and vile to me. I have gone NC with my 2 other siblings as a result.

I am in touch with her adult children a little who I see and am very fond of . I heard my NSiS’s husband was unwell and perhaps had a couple of years to live. My nsis and her husband have been asking to see my kids aged 13, 9 - and 5- they hadn’t seen them for 3 years.

Her husband is a nice man. In order to preserve my relationship with my nieces, and to “do the right thing” , I allowed my children to see my Nsis and husband for 1 hr at their house , with my husband and i stayed home so i wasnt triggered.

Big mistake.
She managed to take my teen aside and pump him for personal information, totally ingratiating herself with all 3 children , and made plans with them to all come back for a sleepover in the summer. Didn’t even ask my husband! Took them and showed them where they would sleep, gave them gifts etc . My husband who doesnt know my Nsis as well as I do wasnt vigilaint enough and I put him in unfair situation.

Kids all came home singing Nsis praises and telling me how they want to go back. Teen telling me "but she was nice to me' i am worried he will now doubt why i am NC from
My other siblings "if they are as nice as her"

No good deed seems to go unpunished it seems. I feel really foolish.
I also feel now I can’t really have a close relationship with my nieces as it will mean my Nsis has a better grasp on my own kids. It was clear she had asked my nieces what mu kids liked and made a honed pitch each one - eg come for a sleep over with the puppies/lets make cupcakes/lets watch a match. As a result my relationship with my nieces is compromised

A moment of weakness meant I have undone years of good work, and all her manipulation is in my head again

Advice please will be very welcome-
I need some help

Thank you @Ooolaaaala @Sicario validation is definitely what I am needing right now, and everything you are saying makes sense.

DH ordering the ring door bell.

I have looked into EMDR in the past and now feel like it's the time to revisit it. I am also going to reach out to my old therapist and get an appointment booked in. I am just hoping it's not more traumatic than living with this anxiety

How does one go about getting a diagnosis for C-PTSD? Has anyone here had one? Tbh I have all the symptoms, and being trapped living with two narcs for 18 years could definitely have caused this. I did think I might have BPD but this makes more sense.

I am definitely planning on NC with Mum. It's finding the right time and the guts. But I feel that time is coming soon. Interestingly two of her husband's children are NC with him, and she hinted it was because they didn't like her.

@scroogemcfuckaduck That thing you said about being diagnosed with cPTSD...

PTSD was a diagnosis reserved for men for many years, also known as "Shell Shock". They had seen and been subjected to terrible things and couldn't function due to the after-effects of their awful experiences.

Shell-shock was not permitted for women. It was for the men. We were not allowed into the Shell-Shock club because as women, we were expected to "suck it up" even when we were beaten black and blue.

Remember - the "rule of thumb" was a rule that a man could not beat his wife with a baton thicker than his thumb.

Complex PTSD applies to so many of us.

You can look for a diagnosis, but better to realise that this is true for you. One only has to look at your story to know that this is true.

I am unable to offer you any advice or way forward, but I believe you. I believe every word you have shared with us here on the stately homes thread. I wish I could offer you a strong hand to hold and some reassurance that you are not the only one. But I can't.

All I can say is hang on in there and keep going one step and a time towards a better future.

@Sicario yes that makes complete sense, I would guess so many people on this thread also suffer the same considering it's about sustained trauma by people who are supposed to protect you and you are unable to escape from it.

Childhood felt like a prison that I needed to escape from at the earliest opportunity.

The memory loss for me is so odd, I had so many repressed memories that have been unlocked by seeing my Dad again and then also being a mum myself. The sad thing is I also repress happy memories, like a place I have been, for instance I know I have been to Barcelona twice but I have zero memories of it.

Thanks for affirming my idea @AttilaTheMeerkat and @Ooolaaaala .
I like the idea of burning a photo of her too. Unsure if I still have any as I tried to throw them all out when she died so that I'd have nothing to remind me of her,

Hi, I've been reading all your posts. It's strange because I've never met anyone who has had the horrific childhood I had but reading on here is making me realise that it's more common than you realise.
I've been NC with my mum (feels weird calling her that) for 4 years now, it's like a weight has been lifted and I don't regret it at all.
She is an absolute disgusting excuse of a human being and ruined my childhood along with my sisters (but she seemed to have a stronger hatred of me) Always a parade of men coming and going, when I was 8 she started an affair with school friends dad which of course got found out, I was bullied for years by my friend and her family because my mum broke up there family. Always really inappropriate sexual behaviour around us. Continuously told I should have been aborted. Finally went NC because i decided after years of keeping it to myself to go to the police about a sexual assault that happened when i was 15. She said she didn't believe me.
At first she didn't react to NC and continued to see my son (adult who I have tried to keep out of this) But at Christmas just gone he went round with her Christmas present and she shut the door in his face. Told him he had to pick a side.
The guilt I feel for my boy kills me, I can see how hurt he is and I feel like it's my fault, I knew when he was born what sort of woman she was and still allowed her to be in his life. Has anyone else dealt with similar, how did you explain to your children?
Thanks for reading:)

@cricketcrit
Your sister is very manipulative (not that you need me to tell you that) she has groomed your children, will she actually follow through with the things that she's promised them? They might see through her if you can let it ride a bit?
I'm assuming that she's motivated by wanting to best you, she might just lose interest if it isn't working?

@Thesharkradar so very manipulative. It is making me feel ill since they met a week ago