April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

@Airworld - from your post, there is a clear subtext that you don't want to go, and if you did go, it would be because you are worried about what people will think or say if you don't go.

You are also very clear that your life has been a lot better without her in it.

So in a nutshell, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

This is of course very upsetting (unsettling?) for you.

You have to do whatever feel right for you, and I mean for YOU, not for other people. Either way, the notion you have of telling your mother "some home truths" would be a mistake because abusive people will never admit to or apologise for their abusive behaviours. All it will do is upset you and open up a wound that you have spent a long time trying to heal.

I did not see my mother before she died, and I have no regrets. Staying away from my Family Of Origin is the best decision I ever made.

@Airworld what a difficult situation for you. There's the societal pressure of being a good daughter, which never takes into account awful family shit (which why this guilt free forum is so brilliant) and the absolute dreadful reality of placing yourself back in the firing line. My thoughts are you and your family take priority here. Guilt is a shit emotion.

To the new folks here, hello and welcome. I've drawn so much comfort, support and great advice from this forum over three years whilst I've dealt with my horrible abusive mother in law aka The Hag. The people here are INCREDIBLE. Thanks to @AttilaTheMeerkat for setting this up and the wisdom of folks like @Sicario

I LONG to give my the Hag some home truths on her death bed, I really do. Pointing out the hot fires of hell await her rather than the reward of heaven for a nice catholic old lady because she abused - on every level - my partner to within an inch of his life is my dream. I'm not religious, but wish a volcanic heat for the witch. I won't bother, I won't want to see her (I think my absence will speak volumes) but ill be there for my partner only.

He's got to the point of very, very low contact. Christmas and hospital appointments. She's a relentless force of nature demanding servitude from her children. He's stopped his feeling of duty to her, the guilt is much, much lower, he feels sad for her. Personally, I think the sadness is a waste of time as she's chosen to live out her final years lonely, in filthy clothes and in a slum of a house. But, I think, the sadness comes from his empathy.

He's had two years of amazing therapy. He had to go private as its trauma informed and at £50 an hour it's not been cheap and as we’re low income it's a dint in our lifestyle. But the difference. Wow. So proud of him.

Yesterday he posted on social media thanking people for the support we’ve given him. It was a vague reference to difficulties but the public acknowledgement of pain was really something.

He's got to take the Hag to a hospital appointment on Friday so it'll be interesting whether she’ll be playing nice sweet old lady or a genuine presentation of her hideous self. One never knows!

💙

The parts that jumped out at me from your post, @Airworld are:

I just don’t want to know still. Life has been so much better without her in it, and without subjecting my DC to her either.

I do worry what some people will think of me if I don’t go ie heartless bitch, but then I have never spoken in any kind of detail to anyone aside from DH about my relationship with DM so they don’t know.

I can totally understand this completely throwing you, but I think that once you've given yourself a bit of time, the answer will be so clear.

If your main worry is what other people will think, well it sounds like they won't be thinking anything, apart from what you choose, if anything, to tell them.

All that matters here is your and your DC's peace of mind. Going, or any contact beyond a basic letter, risks opening one hell of a can of worms.

Here's the thing: dying people are mainly the same people they always were, but unwell. The difference is they're not expected to recover from the illness.
If you and your mother (putting this in the most neutral way imaginable!!) do not get on... if your meetings inevitably bring out the worst in her and do nobody any good...then the right thing to do would be to leave her to live her last days in peace. If someone were just ill, we wouldn't go meet them if it was just going to end in rows and upset and with them being an awful shit. Just because the prognosis is worse, the decision isn't much different.

"I can never seem to say the right thing and it always ends up with us both worked up"
Or
"She's been horrible to me all her life, it would be ridiculous to shell out thousands and disrupt the kid so she can be ghastly to me one more time before she dies"

Pick one, depending on the audience... but as PPs said, who will know that any of this is happening unless you tell them? Which you can, just, not.

I have to thank this forum for the support that is here. I have found it cathartic to write down things I have felt guilty about for so long, and to recognise myself in the stories that have been generously shared by others.

I have now gone low contact with my mother. I am heavily pregnant so have said it is to do with pregnancy hormones and stress, but I feel so much better not seeing or speaking to her on the phone. Our communication has been limited to a couple of essential text messages. It's only been a week and a half but I already feel more free than I have for a long time.

I know it's early days, but I'm hopeful by doing this I will no longer be hurt or upset by her, and that I can start to heal. I would like to let go of it all to be honest. Does anyone have any suggestions about how best to do that?

@clarebear111 that’s such good news. so glad it’s giving you peace & strength.

My thinking - keep to your guns and don’t let her invade your space at any cost. The slightest opening of the door and she’ll be back in hurting you and ruining those early days with your baby.

You don’t want your baby to grow up with similar experiences to you, as basically the drama continues yo the next generation. they tend to play kids off against other.*

Read up on abuse, watch videos, listen to podcasts, keep talking here - this has really strengthened my resolve with my mother in law The Hag, to help me help my partner to seek counselling (two years now) and for him to go low contact, I’m pretty much no contact now.

it’s been a journey but I see a much better life without the witch attempting to split me and my partner up and further ruin his life.

*Hag has ignored her two grandsons, but really obsessed with new grandchild from her vile other Golden Boy son’s newest relationship. Not that any of us know where he or his daughter is. He’s dumped our family (thank god) and probably run away from partner and his little girl. Hag wants a new favourite with the little girl. Abusers will play games with the next generation, also as a way of playing with your head. The obsession with granddaughter is a way of hurting her ex-daughter in law who’s lovely.

I was re-listening this morning to the series that Woman's Hour did on narcissistic mothers earlier this year.

Here's a link to one of the episodes. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001p1px

@clarebear111 Well done on taking a step back, I hope the rest of your pregnancy is peaceful.

I am now three years on from making the decision to go NC and honestly, some days I feel so sad and angry about it all. Give yourself time. I did have some therapy but waited until my youngest was in nursery so I could get myself together after each session.

@Sicario that Woman’s Hour prog was one of the mos5 helpful things for Mr Monkey. He refers back to it lots. And doesn't it give something like a drop down menu on narc mothers 😉

Thanks I previously listened to those women hour programs they were very interesting especially the 2 sisters with different experiences with their mothers. I used to think one of my brothers had it easy but then discovered he had a similar experience the difference us he is still trying and hoping for approval from her I gave up years ago

To go NC / LC can be tough but sticking with it seems even harder at times! Especially as family try to pull you back into their drama. Writing and reading this thread has helped a lot. I also wrote down reasons on why I have gone NC or LC with some family members and every time I wobble I go back to read this. It's been useful because sometimes after going NC for a while I start to wonder if I have over reacted or I start to feel guilty. Reading my notes back makes me a bit angry but also reminds me that being part of these relationships is self-sabotage.

I think a large part of feeling guilty is that toxic people use guilt as a tactic. I feel like I was trained to feel guilty for everything so it's taken a lot of work to let go of guilt.

@MonkeyfromManchester thank you for the welcome for us newbies. Glad to read your DH’s therapy has helped. I had therapy last year for just a tiny part of my problems but you only get a handful of sessions free (I had a 3year wait for them after a breakdown). I thought I needed help due to domestic violence and trauma in my late teens early twenties …..but actually now know that my childhood was the start of the problems. Some days are so very very hard 😰….your DH is very lucky to have you. I have a DP but things to do with my past I really don’t like to talk about as there’s no way he could possibly understand. He sees how my family are (LC) but this is the nicer side of them all as they love my DP , not nice but better than I have known, so he can’t fully understand the depths of it all and my mental health battles because of it.

Hi everyone, just looking for a bit of moral support! I went NC with narc mother earlier in the year and my teenager decided to as well. They'd had a close relationship that I'd tried to facilitate over the years even when I wasn't speaking to her.. I did this out of fear and obligation really and he has recently understood this and backed away himself, blocking her on social media etc. However she is basically (unhealthily) obsessed with them so I expected there to be a backlash or reaction of some sort.

Teenager is a performing artist outside school.. they have a show tonight.. narc mother has a tendency to be stalkerish and has driven 2 hrs to watch them - she must have seen it advertised online. For various reasons I'm not at this show, although other responsible adults are.. teen has told them the situation and is staying with them when not on stage. My partner has gone to make sure things are ok and collect.

Aargh. In so many ways this feels like an overreaction on my part. I know my mother wouldn't hurt my child deliberately - but showing up like this is ruining their evening and causing them distress. My therapist says I don't react to her as an adult but as child me, which is basically full of fear and anger.

I have had some ok times with my mother over the years but these have been down to me trying and trying to make it work despite her bullying me, parentifying me (as a child and now - she has no boundaries with me), being aggressive and nasty as she pleases (she thrives on conflict) and doggedly trying to make me fall in to line. I'm just so sick of it.

Please tell me - am I overreacting? I feel like I'm crazy and making drama - but all I want is no drama (and a safe, happy child that doesn't have to witness / experience any more of this).

I think I've finally broken. DH went to the pub with his parents last night and they all talked together and I just don't have that kind of relationship with my parents. Even though I see them all the time, and talk with them all the time, I always feel like there's a bomb that could go off at any moment.
There have been so many times in the past when they just take over, lecture me, hector me, patronise me, start arguments (especially strowman arguments) over nothing, don't listen to me, throw tantrums or get angry or sneery over nothing, tell me their same old problems over and over again but refuse to hear mine... I can't imagine having the sort of conversations with them that DH has with his parents, especially in a place like a pub in the evening... even though my parents are behaving at the moment I am still so cautious that they could revert to their old behaviour at any moment, it feels like a minefield and you don't know when you'll step on a mine again.
DH's parents are arseholes too but it's not the same. It's hard to explain, I think I'll write a longer post later, but I just needed to get this post off my chest now.

@DavesSpareDeckChair I could have written what you said about my mother. It's exhausting and ruins everything.. either the lectures / anger / sneering (my mother literally turned my new mugs over in her hands when visiting earlier in the year and said sneeringly "are these supermarket mugs?" - it's ridiculous!) and the waiting for it even when they're behaving can be even worse. I'm 4 months into no contact and having therapy and it can be brutal.. she can leave me alone and then not (see my prev' post on this page!). Don't be broken. There's a Gloria Steinhem quote 'Be the man you want to marry', and when I remember and feel strong enough I try to apply this to parents too... support yourself by being kind to yourself in a way they're not, and if you wouldn't accept certain behaviour from other people, don't accept it from them.

Here to provide moral support, @drinkingteaslowly.

I don't for a moment think you are overreacting. Her grandson is NC but she is just turning up at his performance? That is inflammatory and horrible of her.

She's not thinking of her grandson's well-being of peace of mind, is she? It's all about her and asserting her role as a GM, despite him and you rejecting that.

Thank you @BluebellsForest Gosh, I don't think she concerns herself with anyone else's wellbeing / peace of mind. You're absolutely right about her asserting her GM role. Thinking about the adage of if you love someone, let them go, these narc parents (or at least mine) resist that completely, clinging on with talons! It's exhausting. Thank you again for the moral support and taking the time to thoughtfully respond.

@drinkingteaslowly I am sorry to hear about your son's performance being "hijacked" by GM turning up. That's horrible commitment to the narc cause - driving 2 hours there and back to insert yourself where you know you're causing bother.

I don't know if it's possible, but would your son be able to speak to the organisers/people on the door to ask that she not be admitted to the venue if she arrives for a subsequent event/performance? I used to do a fair bit of acting and a cast member once had a troublesome "interested party" who would turn up to see them, which caused great distress. The people in the box office agreed to not let him in and to give him back any ticket money he might have paid in advance. I think the management can refuse to admit people "at their discretion". It might not stop her from sitting outside in the car park, but it may help to get the message across.

Best wishes to you both. x

@REP22 Thank you for your message. That's definitely worth considering at some venues.

Hello all, first time poster here. I’m at a point where I’m considering NC with my mother. After having talking therapy it has been revealed to me how she has neglected me as a child and is an actual narcissist.

growing up we were poor lived in a rough area both my parents regularly smoked drugs so found money for that but They never took us anywhere no day trips out I went to the cinema once in my entire childhood and I had never been to the local seaside,no family holidays etc my world was extremely small. My mother prioritised herself and her friends over looking after her children, didn’t turn up to important school events, saying she would turn up but choosing to drink and take drugs with her friends instead often leaving me waiting at school for her thinking that she would turn up, funnily as a child I never got wise to this and waited for her each and everytime.

since having my my own children I’ve noticed how harmful her and uncaring her interactions are. My son recently started school we went for a day out with my mother and she spoke about herself and work and moaned at me the entire time Ignored my children and didn’t once ask how his first week at school went.

If I ask her to help with babysitting she will say yes then when it comes to the day she is “poorly” has “forgotten” or she goes out the night before and is hungover - she will insist she is in a fit state but there’s no way I could leave my children with her hungover I know how snappy and irritated she gets. She never offers to spend time with my children. I’ve lived in my house 5 years she has been round 3 times. I pulled her up on the letting me down last minute 80% of the time and she said she doesn’t and I’m paranoid?! She looked after one of her friends children every weekend for almost a year and she managed to do that but can’t help now and again with her own GC (I only ask as a very last resort).

I didn’t have grandparents around growing up. My MIL and FIL are so lovely warm caring and always want to be around me and my children so I know my kids have them. I’m just sad they won’t have that with my mother and I’ll be blamed if I go NC but she doesn’t make the effort anyway. I don’t want my children to hate me for going NC but I don’t want them to feel unloved by my mother they will quickly see the difference as they always ask to see MIL but hardly ever mention my mother.

there is more but it’s so much to list

sorry this is so long if you made it to the end thanks for reading

I'm sorry, @Cn1. That all sounds so incredibly sad.

I'm glad you're having therapy, and it does sound like NC is the way forward. There doesn't seem to be anything that you would lose.

Your children won't hate you for doing this. They might have questions later, which you can answer in an age-appropriate way.

From what you say, it sounds like drawing a firm boundary and going NC, while uncomfortable for you in the short term, will be hugely freeing,