April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

@SarahC50 and @girlswillbegirls - my mother died last year. I don't miss her and I'm glad it's over. I never fully managed to shrug off the FOG (fear obligation and guilt) although the reason I went NC was as a direct result of my highly Toxic Sister and BIL. Toxic Sister is a carbon copy of my mother's histrionic, narc self. One day I just couldn't deal with it all any more and walked away.

So I would say that when they die it's a relief. It also (from my perspective) was a step towards being able to completely remove myself from Toxic Sister. Of course upon my mother's death it transpired that Toxic Sister and BIL had been up to all sorts - the will had been changed and they had been living out of her bank account for years. So the toxic behaviour ramped up for a while, but now it's all over.

With hindsight, I can see that the FOG was far more complicated with regard to my mother, whereas my sister and her arsehole husband can fuck right off and I have absolutely not one single jot of FOG about that.

@girlswillbegirls thankyou very much for your kind and thoughtful reply. I too am scared to have therapy to pick the scab, I do sometimes read up about it and it helps me recognise the behaviours for what they are. Your suggestions are great and you are right it's small steps and little things that help.
I don't know if it's hormonal but I find myself going into a deep hole for days of rumination and it's so hard to dig my way out. I feel battered and bruised by still having to deal with her.

Thankyou @Sicario that's good to hear that it is over when they die. I worry that her damage would continue after her death. I don't know if they get worse as they age or if our awareness is just greater xx

Hi everyone, I've name changed for this and feel a bit mad asking for your thoughts / similar experiences. I'm NC with narc mother though hear her news now and then through mutual acquaintances. NM's husband recently passed away after a long illness. They'd had an erratic relationship and husband was never friendly / welcoming to me. NM has always chosen partners that were hostile and jealous of her having a relationship with her daughter (me) and this has contributed to our relationship breakdown.
Before her husband passed and we were still in contact she said she'd put more energy into our relationship. Adult me thought please no - this relationship thrives on space. Child me thought yes please - I want my mum back.
I then found out she was already dating again, which she wanted to share with me, and have my support, and I blew up. I felt like there was this tiny window of opportunity for us to try and make things work but instead she was looking for a new man, just weeks after her husband's death.
TBH, alongside her needy, emotionally sapping and aggressive behaviour (not due to grief, just in general) this contributed to me deciding to go NC.

I have now heard that she has a new boyfriend and is smitten. On the one hand I'm glad. I genuinely want her to be happy. And ideally at a distance from me. For whatever reason, on our good days she was always still quite melancholic around me (but not others). But on the other hand I feel bereft. Like she could have tried to apologise and understand how her behaviour has affected me my whole life, and how her late husband's (and previous partners) spite and jealously contributed to this, but instead she's stopped hoovering (yay) and got a new man and cast me aside again.

I know all this sounds very confused! I suppose it's that the men have always come first and it seems they always will. As other posters have said, I'm not grieving my actual mother, I'm grieving the idealised one that never existed.

Anyhow, it feels good to write it out rather than hold it in.

@balancetheboat As hard as it is, I guess there's a silver lining in that she has someone else to fulfil her neediness. The new man becomes her audience as she goes from one relationship to another.

I'm sorry you're hurting. But you know already that it was never going to be any other way. Any thoughts that you had about being able to repair the mother / daughter relationship were just wishful thinking.

She will never acknowledge her behaviour, or try to make amends for being a terrible mother.

Sending solidarity. You are not alone.

@Sicario Thank you so much. I know that all you say is spot on and really appreciate the solidarity.

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat I know you're right and value your support.

@AttilaTheMeerkat Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so the men in their lives are either are narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded. She will indeed never apologise nor accept any responsibility for her actions

Amen to all that! My father was just are narcissistic as my mother. He never wanted to be a father in the first place, my mother told him (based on nothing but a 'feeling') that she couldn't have children...she was pregnant less than 6 months after they met. Met in the January, she was pregnant and they married by the December. Went on to have 3 children in total, none of us were planned. Father finally had a vasectomy after my younger brother was born.

My father was bored with family life by the time I was 9, started working abroad. He was unfaithful to my mother the whole time they were married. My mother didn't want to have to give up the lifestyle - or go out to work - so stayed. She chose her marriage over her children and made our childhood a misery.

When I was 11 we had been living in the UK for about a year...suddenly my father decides he wants the family to move back to Australia (where my mother is from and myself and my younger brother were born). This was a massive surprise, he had started working abroad because he 'hated' Australia - to the point that he'd refused Australian citizenship after he had been there 7 years.

So yet again (for the 5th time in 3 years) we packed up and prepared to move across the world. This involved giving up pets we'd had less than a year...for a child of 11, going through that yet again was incredibly distressing. Long story short, my mother found out the literal day we were flying back that my father had actually made arrangements to stay behind, had not given notice at his work and had even found himself somewhere to stay!

My mother still stayed with him. For another 10 years, until he finally left her for another woman...2 days after my wedding. The wedding I'd been told I 'had' to have otherwise my parents would disown me. I also found out when my mother told me he'd left that not only had they been living together for 6 months before they married, but my mother was 2 months pregnant with my older brother when she walked down the aisle!

So yeah, a pair of narcissistic hypocrites. I've been no contact with my father for 34 years...it's his 77th birthday today (if he's still alive). I've been very low contact with my mother for 28 years, not actually seen her for 14 years. Her and my younger brother are the only family I have left now. She's 82 this year, I do worry sometimes about how I will react when she dies - will I feel nothing, relief or guilt/sorrow? But even those worries do nothing to make me want to change the way things are now. For the sake of my mental health (I'm bipolar) I can't.

it's been going so well keeping MIL at a distance (from me - DH can go visit whenever he likes) but here we go again.... we're about to go on holiday (literally travel this weekend) and guess what - she isn't well..... she's ill, really ill, very depressed, doesn't want to speak to anyone, isn't eating, isn't sleeping - poor thing (ahem - obviously timing purely coincidental that DH is going to have 2 whole weeks away from her sht and she can't get him to jump to her whim during that time)
So now poor naive DH thinks his mum is really suffering and needs him whilst I'm desperately trying not to be the btch who points out there's nothing effing wrong with her and she's just trying to control him (oh and isn't it funny the last time she was this ill was just before our last holiday).
And breathe....... Sorry just needed to rant

I've just read most of this thread. It's really helped me confirm that I have done the right thing.

My mother died in July. I'm relieved. I'm not sad, I'm pleased she's gone as it's over.

Golden child was put in charge of arrangements, youngest brother.

He's gone off with his hideous narcissistic girlfriend who acted as a flying monkey for my mother even though my mother hated her too, with her and my dad's ashes to scatter them in their birthplace.

We're all excluded. I've realised that I have to let him go too now. I can't listen to his BS about her. He's put the carbon copy girlfriend ahead of all the grandchildren by leaving us all out.

I blocked him yesterday after he had notified me that the cremation was done. No mourners allowed. It was worrying me but having read this thread tonight I know it's the right thing. Maybe in a year or two he will realise he needed to think of the living, not just his dead mother and insane girlfriend, but I don't really care one way or the other. He probably won't even notice but I had to make sure I didn't get any photos of them sent to me.

I've told my 2 adult sons that it is over and we are a normal family now, we will do everything normally in the future and can forget it all.

What a relief. Thanks everyone and hang on in there, they can't beat death.

@Scyla death allows us to draw a line under the whole sorry mess and move on. I had the same thing when my mother died last year. Toxic Sister and her arsehole husband excluded everybody, just like your brother did. Like you, I'm just glad it's over. I feel so much better.

Posted this and the responses sent me here. Would love any advice. I think the best thing to do is sit my son down and be honest with him. The thought of explaining to him that his nan has cut him off to hurt me is heartbreaking.. like his whole life experiences with her has been a lie that I facilitated. Also can't help feeling that I'd feel better to just scream down the phone that she is an evil piece of crap that will end up with no one. Thanks for any advice.. I know it's long. I have been No contact with my mum for almost 3 years now. She was an absolute vile woman while I was growing up. Emotionally abusive, neglectful ( eg I'd use socks instead of Tampax because she refused to buy them for me) She has always hated me.. from 7 years old she would regularly tell me she wished she had an abortion. I have no idea why, as far as I know she was brought by parents who spoiled her.
I had my son when I was 20, completely alone with no dad in the picture. Not to blow my own whistle but I have done a good job and have loved everything about being a mother. I've worked my arse of to provide the life for my son that I could only of dreamed of. My mum did seem to have a change of heart when my son was born, she still acted very off with me (eg she'd get extremely jealous of my achievements) and make sly remarks. I let it go so my son could have a grandmother. It meant a lot to me because he hasn't got a dad or dads side of family around.
3 years ago I was contacted by the police. I was raped and beat up as a teenager by a man not related to me. Long story short the police reopened my case. This pissed my mum of no end. I don't think she liked the idea that by reading some of the old paperwork from when the rape happened (over 25 years ago) it would become very apparent to my husband what a shitty mother she'd been. Once she knew my husband had read the notes made by the police when I was a teenager she became very defensive (I don't care if he reads it and thinks bad of me!) she's always been obsessed with my husband not thinking bad of her.
Anyway we got into an argument over the phone and she told me she didn't believe the rape had happened and thought i was making it up. I haven't spoken to her since.
My son is 22 now and when I stopped talking to my mum I explained to him that I didn't expect him to also break contact. He is an adult. In the 3 years that I have broke contact she has sent me a few abusive messages, I haven't responded once. She has sent birthday and Christmas presents and cards to my son. Always by post, we live on the same road!!
My son has contacted her maybe once every 3 months asking if he can go and see her or treat her to a birthday meal, she accepts then cancels last minute. I can see how much this is hurting him. He's literally being ghosted by his own grandmother. It's breaking my heart to witness.
My question is, should I contact her?
And just say if you plan on not seeing your grandson again then to tell me, so I can explain to him to stop trying. And also to stop with all the fake birthday/Christmas cards.
The idea of my son being continuously rejected kills me. I need advice on how to deal with this in a way that will have the least impact on him.
Thank you for reading.

I moved 100 miles away. She followed, god knows why she clearly hates me.
I really don't see why I should have to uproot yet again because of her.
In the 3 years I've been no contact I haven't bumped into her once. She hardly ever goes out... claims anxiety which is ironic. She couldn't give a shit about how she makes everyone else feel.
When the police made contact it sent her over the edge. She hated the fact that my DH by reading the police files that were kept from my rape as a teen was getting a sneak peek into the sort of childhood I had.
(Lots of references to being left at the police station on my own. Her refusal to give a statement.) she is obsessed with my DH not thinking bad of her. This paperwork shows exactly what she was and still is.

I get what you are saying about not breaking contact but this is going to have a huge impact on my son. My sister (who is much younger and wasn't subject to her abuse) is trying to get pregnant.. we spoke and she agrees our mum is fucked person but my sister has said she will let her children once born have minimal contact. My sister thinks my mum has a personality disorder and wasn't born for the worst of my mum's behaviour.
That minimal contact is going to really effect my son. It'll be rubbed in his face after he has been discarded like a piece of rubbish.
I know breaking contact probably won't make her see the light. But I'm willing to try anything to stop my son feeling abandoned.
Also can't help but feel if the conversation doesn't go in the direction I'd like it to it still might feel good to scream down the phone that she is a fat piece of shit.

@holdupholdup
It is v hard to accept but sometimes we cannot protect our children from hurt no matter how much we try . It is not your fault and your son will work it all.out for himself in time.
it hurts so much to see our children suffering but I agree making contact will only open the can of worms again. Don't do it. X

Thankyou for your responses. Logically I know you are right and I won't contact her.
I wouldn't care less if it were me but I just hate the fact she can still get to me through my son, it's really sick.

I can't tell him what to do. He's an adult, I will have an honest conversation with him though. He just come home an announced he has been offered a promotion so not tonight.
I need to make him understand that this is her loss and isn't a reflection of him.
What the hell is wrong with these people though. I could never in a million years treat my child in this way. She's acted in a fucked way with all of her children but she seems to have a real deep hatred for me, yet she followed me 100 miles across the country to live on the same bloody street.

Yes, My brother still lives with her. He has a learning disability and wouldn't understand to keep my address secret.

Finding this guy’s work incredibly illuminating atm especially where understanding that the abuse we suffered was truly not our fault is concerned

His book is excellent too so just wanted to share here in case his work is of use to others too

https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Growing-Up-as-the-Scapegoat-to-Narcissistic-Parents-Audiobook/B0C2XBSBY5

@Sicario I’ve been NC with my Toxic Sister for about 1 (and very LC) before that.

Recently I’ve taken a break from my Narc mother and TS has been raging, accusing me of affecting mother’s health by not speaking to her. It also sounds like she’s planning to dispute something of mine which is at the moment, my only source of future security. It’s more outrageous because she’s gotten so much from my parents (multiple properties, £1000s gifted to her etc) which I would never consider sharing but she’s seething that I might get something. I feel like what I’ll get (essentially my inheritance) has been used a stick to beat me with.

I’ve just feel so exhausted, my DF’s death was awful. NM completely overrode any of our wishes for the funeral and TS took over.

Part of me feels like when mother passes, it’ll be over but now I’m getting anxiety knowing TS will kick off, accuse me of killing mother for going NC and trying to take me to court to dispute my inheritance. She also has form of slagging me off to family and friends.

If I’m such a monster you’d think they’d be relieved that I leave them alone, but they are more upset by it.

It’s even hard to call DSis “toxic” because we used to be so close. And deep down I know she loves me. But mother fed her ego to the point she’s fixated on image (and is now under financial pressure to keep up). She married a guy who treats her like shit because he has a good ‘image’ and over time has become more and more enmeshed with mother. My mother guilted her after DF died and I don’t think TS has really processed it and her entire worth based on mother’s opinions and happiness.

I hope she gets better but she’s so hostile and angry and the anger is directed at me and our others siblings.

Does anyone else have a problem watching or reading about positive mother-daughter relationships in films or books? I only went NC last year, had been gradually realising for the previous few years but then there was an incident that really blew the lid off. Has anyone had this and does it get better or am I doomed to read war novels and watch James Bond films to avoid these representations!

It's all so confusing. Since mum died two weeks ago I'm slowly understanding that the only time I will hear her horrible remarks again is in my own head if I replay them.

So that's quite liberating. I will be catching those thoughts and binning them immediately.

Same with golden child and toxic girlfriend (who he insults when she's not there, more confusion).

They were off doing their thing with the ashes this weekend so I did laugh at the terrible weather chasing them around the country.

Not hearing any more from him also means I can liberate myself from listening to his grief, can and stop replaying and trying to unravel their confusing behaviour.

It is over. I feel better.