April 2023 -"Well we took you to Stately Homes"

@Frith2013 my mother did that, in all kinds of ways. Really, really cruel and evil to do that to a child / young teenager. Obsessed with shaming, tainting, and misery.

She had two main styles:

1. Banging on in a long, emotional phone calls about someone else and being fucking horrible about them, and if you didn't push back and disagree with every.single.point. then she was straight on the phone to them afterwards saying, 'oh dear, I'm afraid to tell you that MoonShadow thinks that ... blah blah ... this must be SO upsetting for you'.
2. Just making shit up. 'I was talking to Dr Smith [our GP] and he doesn't think much of you'. Said to a 14 year old, after my dad went through a suicidal episode the GP attended as an emergency. (As if a GP would say that, ffs. But I didn't know that then. I just felt burning shame. Again.)

Yes, @MoonShadowRising that's the sort of thing! The man who allegedly said one horrible thing about me was a teacher and a friend of mine for decades. I never heard him talk about anyone unkindly so it seemed odd that he would tell my mother how awful I am!

Another thing she used to do was criticise my friends, to me, not to their faces. (When I was under 18, she doesn't meet my friends now).

This would be about anything including A drinking too much water, P being lazy, A being sly. This dates back to when we were all 7 in some cases! One friend I said had been born early (only 4 weeks) and she said yes, she doesn't look properly formed. My sibling met one of my friends recently and was shocked that he was nice - she had only heard terrible things.

I still spend my life feeling embarrassed just about existing.

I'm struggling today.

After years of cyclical dysfunction, I had a lightbulb moment in February and went VLC with NM. In therapy I've worked hard on myself since then and have made progress. I'm still triggered by 'grenades' thrown my way but am recovering more quickly each time.

More recently I've realised that I've been discarded, and although I instigated the current situation, that really stings. My parents are right now on a long-haul holiday with my (GC) brother and his family and I'm ruminating on that, even though I don't want to.

Please help me understand why I feel jealous, and why I'm upset to be discarded, even though I started this whole thing in the first place? I'm struggling to understand myself!

Thank you all for the kind support. It has given me a lot to think about. I need to decide what I am prepared to do and practise what to say. Hopefully, this will make it easier to say in person, if that makes sense.

@grizzletopsy Glad you find it in you to try and analyse this situation. And I'm sorry it is so hard.

You say your brother is the Golden Child. Could the jealousy come from the past when he was treated better than you? Could this be your inner child reminding you of the pain you felt as a child when you were discarded and your brother was given special treatment?

@grizzletopsy
I think it is only natural to feel the sting of being excluded even if you dont really want to be included. It reinforces all the feelings of childhood, of not being good enough to be included and accepted and loved for who you are. You are longing for the loving family you truly want but unfortunately that isnt an option. It sucks frankly .
I am sorry you are struggling. Try to hold on to the fantastic progress you are making and imagine all the emotional turmoil you are avoiding by staying away. x

@tippinggtowardsinfinity "The GC may look like the ‘winner’ but they are not. It’s a golden prison. Ultimately, a narc parent is incapable of love, even to the GC, and when push comes to shove, the Narc parent will always, but always, prioritise themselves and thereby let the GC go into rapid free fall, with never a moment of remorse."

This is ultimately how I allowed myself to let go of the jealousy. I do get a pang of it every now and again, but I can see how my sister (the GC) is not only in a golden prison but has also sacrificed so much of her personal life and wellbeing in this position. She used to love the attention and loved feeling special but now in her 50s she seems full of regret. Her children have missed out on key milestones that need a parent's attention like swimming, cycling, family holidays or just time off together. Her mental and physical health has also been impacted. She hasn't had time to put into her personal relationships. It's a huge commitment being a GC and the only reward is some parental attention and love in exchange for even more expectations!

Having been kicked out the nest, like you said, I got on with building my own life and see myself as the lucky one now. @grizzletopsy I used to feel incredibly jealous too, so your post resonated with me. Like others have said it's a phase and while it may feel hard right now, you may even feel grateful later. Feeling like you've been discarded by a parent is tough even if you know you want LC and sometimes GC get carried away with the attention re-enforcing how special they are and how insignificant you are - it's the ultimate toxic sibling rivalry at play.

A little saying I find myself going back to in a lot of situations is:

“Hard choices, easy life. Easy choices, hard life.”

Going LC / NC, having therapy, breaking cycles, trying to understand our feelings (like jealousy), putting in boundaries, learning how to exist from a place of compassion and love when we've not experienced that as children - these are hard things to do and lead to a better life. The easy choice would have been to go along with whatever trauma we had and to continue that cycle but it is a miserable life. 💛

@tonewbeginnings @tippinggtowardsinfinity @flapjackfairy @Twatalert

Thank you so much for your very wise words. My FOO (unsurprisingly) has a complex story and I would say that I was the GC until someone snapped in me and I became unable to continue the charade. I have to be true to myself. One thing that's really hard is that because my NM is covert, she gives the impression that she's warm, caring and maternal when secretly she's the exact opposite to me.

You've given me loads to think about. I agree that this is triggering the fear of rejection I felt so intensely as a child. I watch this thread like a hawk as it resonates so closely with my daily loved experience Its validating to know that I'm not to blame when I'm still very much getting the message that I am.

@grizzletopsy it is incredibly hard to shift the feeling of blame.

Even after a lifetime of mental illness, being a suicidal child, years of therapy and medication and my friends telling me how batshit my mother sounds when I occasionally give them examples of my mother's behaviour...a part of me still doubts my experience. I still feel like a fraud. I feel like I'm being unfair towards her! It's such a hard thing to get rid of, but trust me I have never seen clearer.

@Twatalert

Absolutely agree. And like you, I've got a few very close friends who can see what I can now see.

I've been doubting my decision and myself recently too, wondering if I've made more of it than it is, been too dramatic, got it wrong. But then I realised that I was often told I was making more of things, being over dramatic. So I had internalised the messages and by acting on them I was doing her dirty work for her.

In therapy i am starting to realise that I doubt everything because I have been conditioned to keep the peace and make everything okay. And that when I start to doubt myself, I feel an urge to perform the conforming behaviours (of glossing over everything and trying to please her) because in the past, that was the only way I was okay. If she was okay, I was okay.

This time it's different. I'm learning to sit with the discomfort. Healing is feeling.

Hi everyone. I have reading all along and as always sending my sympathies to all of you. I have a shit weekend and still feel sick in the pit of my stomach due to the current fall out with my mother.
My sister went nc about 2 months ago. This was a huge shock to everyone but me. On Saturday the narc asked me about it and I said 'DS is 80 0 feels that way because you did used to call us those names when we were kids', horrible bitch, selfish cow etc. This is no means the extent of her abuse and narc behaviour but is something she can't deny. Cue loads of messages to me saying she always knew I didn't love her, she had a terrible upbringing, she was depressed and being abused herself etc etc. She can't help feeling unloved because of the way am with her. I just feel like saying... Well what do you expect?
So much more to all it of course but it's been left that I've said I think we need space until I think about it all. I've also said her low self esteem need for security are not my responsibility and the pressure of that on us as kids was immense. She said well I took you to horseriding and music lessons!
So now I don't know what to do. I used to see her several times a week, message daily. She lives a few miles away but I live in the main village she visits daily to drop my younger adopted sister at school.
She's just got a job at my DCs nursery as well. It's the only nursery here and I start my new job in a few weeks.
How do I initiate low contact? Those who manage it... How often do you see her if she lives really near and in what context?
And what do you do when she calls out your grey rocking?
Sorry for such a ramble. I'm in a bad place today.

@User65412 This is a really tricky period for you to navigate. It sounds like the soup has only just hit the fan – your sister has finally gone NC - and you forgot to put your flak jacket on.

By telling your mother a few home truths, you’ve thrown petrol on the embers started by your sister and things are going to start ramping up.

Prepare yourself for your mother’s behaviour to worsen significantly. Dysfunctional people have a hard time admitting the truth. They will blame everyone else and are often incapable of introspection. They cannot admit what they have done. They refuse to take responsibility for the situation at hand. They also hate boundaries.

I think the only thing you can do when you are forced to deal with her (when you have no choice other than to see her or interact with her in any way), is to take the high ground and be the adult. So you acknowledge her then walk away.

This might include saying something like -
“I’m not ready to speak to you about any of this.”
“I don’t have time for this right now.”

Do whatever it takes to avoid going into her drama cycle and maintaining your distance.

This really resonated with me, thank you for posting. It's made me realise I do exactly the same and need to work on this too. It sounds like you're doing amazing, I hope you don't have to sit eith the discomfort for long 💐

@tonewbeginnings thank you for posting too, your post and your saying about choices and life also struck a chorde 💐

I haven't been posting in a while and I am back now reading your posts. Every single one of them resonates with my situation.
Mother is over visiting for three weeks (!)
It's really really tough and intense.

Either I agree with all her crazy remarks/ negative comments about anyone or I just react and tell her what I think which it always end up in her talking all over me not allowing me to express myself.
She goes on monologues about herself and how great/ beautiful/ good at anything she is and makes all negative comments about my appearance or the way I do things it.
She does weird things like touching my face, tell me how bad my skin is and having a smirk. I told her yesterday not to touch my face or my hair.
I can honestly say I am feeling very low.
I am normally very positive and a happy person with my own family.
I really want her to dissappear from my life as soon as possible. I would miss anything aboutout her. She lies, reinvents my past and I just found her really horrible.
Very secretly I am hoping she won't be around for too long. I know how bad this thought is.
This is the only space I can post this anonymously. Nobody else can understand it.

Thank you @Cuckoosheep, it's so validating to know we're not on our own!

@girlswillbegirls How much longer is she staying with you? Can you ride it out or do you need to throw her out?

I had a family member come to stay for a month (invited themselves from abroad) and it was utterly hideous. I have never spoken to them since. The spouse is one of the most awful people I have ever encountered.

@User65412 it can be done. It's hard, but doable. I'm now NC with my vile abusive MIL aka The Hag.

My partner Mr Monkey is now at the stage of very, very low contact. The naming of her behaviour as abuse has taken him 50 years. It's been really hard.

She's a coercive witch, but he's passed all the stuff he ‘had’ to do for her to slave son (doesn't work) who's under the impression that abuse is normal and has no life. MM’s last duty is hospital appointments, but will only do these on a very low level when convenient. He's not losing any more holiday to the ungrateful witch’s appointments and is passing it to social services. All the blackmail, screaming, fake tears is ignored.

So proud of him. He's having EMDR therapy for PTSD soon.

@User65412 your mum’s behaviour will get ramped up. Be prepared. Don't engage. Be busy. Like @Sicario says be prepared for flack, but don't get drawn into the drama. Keep talking here. This forum has supported me and my partner to push my toxic MIL out of our lives.

@Twatalert @grizzletopsy @Cuckoosheep my god, I'm telling Mr Monkey “healing is feeling” - it's so true. The abused are made to ignore their feelings and suppress them. We’re not allowed to feel anything at all, they decide the feelings - you're not hurt etc you're being dramatic etc - and the narrative. Best not to share the feelings as they weaponise this.

@girlswillbegirls wishing your mother’s departure is not bad. We’re not supposed to feel like this as society pretends that emotional abuse doesn't happen. It's a dirty secret and we can carry the guilt. I don't know whether chucking her out is an option, but are you able to feign regular migraines, tons of work which requires you to be out of her way with a laptop. Do you have other family you can dump her with? It's a bloody nightmare having them in your house. We feel your pain. Use this forum to offload. You are not alone.

@Sicario you couldn't have summed it up better. I knew I shouldn't have gone there but I wanted to defend my sister as I've felt like I'm betraying her since she went nc.
The narc tricked me really by saying she accepts full responsibility for her behaviour and shouldn't have spoken to us like that when we were kids... Although she can't remember it happening 'more than once'.
I know it's going to be tough from here. Those who are low contact - what do you do or say when she says she never sees you, breaks her heart not seeing your kids, you never want her see her anymore etc? Do you acknowledge it or not?
@MonkeyfromManchester I've kept up with your posts for a while and it's amazing to see the progress you and MM have made. Thank you so much for replying and for all of your posts, they really help me!

@User65412 re being low contact. I'm lucky as the witch isn't my parent so it's been easier to back away. What did help me was journalling here and finding a friend to talk to. My pal was like my coach.

The part about your children - I don't have kids - is really hard, but you don't have to respond to the emotional blackmail. TBH your mum probably views your children as extensions of herself with no autonomy. In time - if she's not already - she will start playing games with them. Keep that view of her close to your heart as another reason why you've backed away. You don't need to justify or explain ANYTHING to your mum. Keep talking here. Hugs.

I'm glad the posts have helped. It's been three and a half years of the Hag’s BS. All the energy she uses on being vile. What an absolute waste of space she is. I feel liberated, apart from when she hurts MM. Then I want to kill. But I won't engage as she needs anger and spite to exist.

@User65412 I wonder if (and I might be stating the bleeding obvious here) your mother deliberately got a job at your DC's nursery so that she could access you and your DC.

You clearly cannot avoid her because she seems hell bent on not allowing that. To go fully NC with her under that circumstance would be far too stressful for you.

Maintaining low contact, or very low contact, can be stressful because you can't totally avoid multiple triggers like birthdays, christmas, mothers day, and so on. But you can plan ahead for them and treat them as non-events that don't sap your emotional energy.

For example, having a stock of bland, pre-written cards so you don't even have to sit down and write "happy christmas from User65412". Shove them in the post 2 days before the date then forget about it.

Also, NEVER rise to the bait. Every little thing that she tries to contact you about will be bait.

Try not to give her too much of your precious headroom. Although I know that's really hard.

And remember that she will be just as toxic for your children. Keep them firmly under your wings.

Thank you so much for responding, I sent an essay that should have summarise.

@Sicario my mother has two and a half weeks left in my house. I work full time thank god. The worse part are weekends. I am living abroad for two decades now- the idea of leaving home and even my country was directly linked to be away from her (I know its crazy, but I made lots of friends and really made myself home here). I met my husband and had my children here too, most of the year I am away from her and she comes and visits twice a year or so, I let her stay out of guilt and because my only sister went NC a long time ago.
@MonkeyfromManchester thanks for the advice. You wouldn't belive how many extra hours I'm putting in work hahaha! I make myself very busy and do any stuff to be away from her.

Thanks for your kind words. I'm reading all the good advice here and feeling much better since I posted before. Thanks xx