how can we stay married?

[confusedabouthim]

Is it better not to concentrate on each others good points and not try and find out each others bad points? Sometimes i wish i had taken my mothers advice. insteadi know my husband was watching porn, calling sex chat lines, sending text chats to anonymous strangers, etc

i wish i could concentrate on the fact that he is kind, gentle, good mannered, fantastic with the kids, benevolent about my spending and lets me use as much money as i like, and works really hard in a high status high earning job and gives everythnig to me and the kids from it.

am i being a cow to wish he wouldnt relieve his stress in such ways?

should i just assume that no one is perfect and just stick to the good things?

should i just tell him to put a pin on his phone and change his email password and just make it hard for me to find out if hes doing anything?

is that the only way i can be happy in my marraige? what compromises am i supposed to make, not supposed to make?

how do i forget bad stuff and move on? how do i not see his bad side? is that the only way i can stay married?

I know you've already been given some good advice but I'd just like to add that I've not had a strict muslim upbringing and I would also find this completely unacceptable. You do not need to 'chill out' and pretend to be fine with things just because you think that's what other people do.

exactly stars

we all have our own personal boundaries, and if this bloke is constantly crossing the OP's, knowing full well how much it bothers her, he needs a kick in the gonads

AF Thanks for highlighting the health risks to the OP which I had not given due consideration to.

Also I should probably say that I didn't mean that I would stay in this marriage (am currently in the process of separating even though DH is my best friend and I still love him, but I have a different view from him of whats a happy marriage), just that I understand how difficult it might be for the OP to decide to go it alone and forgoe her 'easy' life (in terms of finance/family). And also leaving a relationship where you do love the person and just wish that ONE part of them could change and then it would be perfect! Ofcourse the whole point is that it is not an 'easy' life if you have to live with a man who does not act as a 'husband'.

I think its a bit like bereavement. There are stages of grief and you might not feel strong enough to ask him to leave now, but take one day at a time and know that you are the one making the decisions in your life.

I know you were trying to help by presenting an alternative to the "just get rid of him", IstTimeMummy

I am one of the "just get rid of him" brigade, and make no apology for that. I say it a lot on here. Because I think every individual woman should never compromise herself for a man, or for the sake of staying in an empty relationship for appearance's sake.

What he is doing is mental abuse, and should not be tolerated, by anybody, for any reason, IMO.

I think all this 'men will be men' stuff is a pathetic get out clause. You hate it yet it persists. Whether it be porn/infidelity/domestic violence, if it is making a person in any relationship unhappy then they need to end it. Life is just too short and precious. You do need some support though OP, it sounds like this is a repeating pattern.

Hey there,

i have been thinking alot about all thats been written the past week on this topic.

its really hard to just up and leave. i have a loving supportive family but parents are going through alot of financial stress at the moment and i would need awhile to get onto my own two feet.

i know about alimony and settlements but currently, everything my husband earns is mine and the kids, if i leave him, then only a percentage of that will go on us. i can't stand that he might go off and marry someone else who won't give a crap about the porn or the other stuff and then if they had kids they would take what our children should be having. im alot closer to 'not caring' than i was a few months ago, but i still care enough about him and our dc...

if i left him, it would take a long time, like say 25/30 years if even that, for me to earn what he is earning, if ever. i never worked after finishing my studies, got married straight after and started having kids. they went to prep school and now go to good private schools where they are thriving. i would never be able to give them that life plus keep a roof over our heads and all the normal essentials of life, give them that security of a fathers as well as mothers love.

i don't know any men from my religious or cultural background who would do what my husband does for children which are not his, they are just not wired that way. my husband is very proud of HIS children and he adores them. but i also fear that if he doesnt see them all the time as he does because we live together, he might lose that feeling.

he has an extremely shy and reserved demeanor that would make real life family and friends drop dead from shock if i told them what iv written in my posts.

Well honestly I think porn as a side issue as long as it's nothing illegal or extremely violent is a non issue.

Sorry but I do think anyone who believes their hubby or whatever never use porn are very naive.

It's no different to you closing your eyes and thinking of George Clooney or whatever. It's a natural thing for men to masturbate and they need visual stimulus more often than not.

It does make me laugh when people say their husband does not watch porn ever. Hardly they just hide it better as they know what the reaction will be.

I think it's unfair and quite intrusive snooping on mens wanking habits tbh. Many women also use porn too.

Sure in this case, the texts, chatlines etc I think are a step to far and if you are not having a healthy sex life or relationship I would be feeling the same.

However porn unless and addiction is not a sign your relationship is failing in general.

Also just to add I don't know the background to this, but demonising porn won't help.

There is more to it your situation in that he is using chatlines/texting people and you are not having a good relationship in general.

But I have to say if you are looking for a relationship with a man to be "porn free" as in he will never use porn than that won't happen, you just may not know about it.

Men are visual creatures, no excuses that is the way they are it's biological they need visual stimulus to wank which is again perfectly natural. Demonising a man masturbating again will only cause issues as it's natural.

All men do watch porn, I am 100% confident of that, be it you're poorly, away, seperated, tired etc they may seek release infront of the pc from time to time.

My hubby is not what I'd call a sex addict and we have a healthy sex life, but I'd be very suprised if he had NEVER used porn whilst we were together, very suprised. Men as do women have urges to masturbate, they need some visual stimulus that is all. Does that make me feel good? No not really but he is a lovely man we are happy and I am a realist

There is nothing wrong with men watching porn as long as it does not affect your relationship, and it's not and addiction or violence based, if they can be discreet then all the better. Women who have major issues with porn on the whole are either insecure and can't see that it's the case with all men from time to time or the relationship has other issues.

If you demonise something which is perfectly natural you'll just make it more attractive and it's hypocritical when we all have our own things going on in our head at the "time" right?

I just think women would be a lot happier in general if they stopped beating themselves up over porn, it's a release. A recent study had to be cancelled as they could find NO MEN who had not been exposed to porn, so what does that tell you? Finding a man who will never use porn until the day he dies is a non goer in all honesty, even if he tells you it's not his "thing" he is just being more respectful.

But like I say there are other issues in your case it would seem. But I just re-read a post where you said you were "wanting a porn free" relationship I think there is more chance of Father Christmas being real than finding a man who will never look at porn for the rest of his days. Like I say if you ever find out about it is another matter.........

Quite so - but the OP is having her nose rubbed in it, so to speak. And that is not acceptable to her.

I have read this thread again this afternoon and I am seriously wondering if I have missed something or if there are other threads you have done in the past?

As actually in a way I feel sorry for you both and think you maybe need some counselling too, I am also a little shocked at the reactions.

From an outsider reading this thread I see some important points which I think explain a lot and maybe you can see them clearer, bits I have got from posts and put together........thread thus far...

1)He has masturbated to some porn, you found it on the internet history and went ballistic.

2)Your reaction and own insecurities made the whole situation of a natural masturbation incident become a huge overblown affair. You then proceed to check on every part of his life, work, phone, bank, bills, work over a bit of porn history.

3)He then decides because of the OTT reaction it's better to hide it. So he goes for the text/chat lines hoping you don't notice to try and keep you happy and "prove" he has got no outside stimulus. He has not had an affair.

4)You know this is happening as you go looking for it by snooping which has driven him to secrecy. But even then he is not rubbing your nose it it, you find something about once a year?

I really hate to say it, but I think you seriously need to look at your own attitude to sex/masturbation as the whole incident here seems to have been caused by your own admission, your reaction to finding out he had used porn.

Men and women wank, that's life and that is nature, it's healthy not something that should be dirty or demonised in anyway. He has been made to feel ashamed for having a wank, which is not right.

Men tend to operate in the here and now they don't have an imagination so there brains are hardwired for images. There is a reason that porn is the biggest thing on the net. Porn/lads mags etc are as old as the year dot. Like I say you won't find a man who has not been exposed to porn in his life if he is honest, it is actually a natural thing to do.

A lot of women don't like porn as they have confidence issues which is clear you do from your posts and they think why not me, am I not enough.

It's equally normal to masturbate even if you are having a healthy sex life, it's not a reflection on you. Again if it's an addiction, violent or overly secretive then it's an issue.

I have found most people I know with sex issues tend to also have problems with sex themselves, "dirtying" normal things and not wanting to have sex etc.

I think here you need help to look at your own self asteem and also your own issues surrounding sex.

I hate to say it if you do leave him, when you meet someone else, I'd guarantee my savings, he would have been exposed to porn, had a wank and probably will do in the future, be it once a week or once a year, you just may never know about it.

I think you do need some counselling as if you go through life like this you are going to be so unhappy.

It does seem here, he got caught via the history that he had watched some porn, you went ballistic and started snooping on every aspect of his life which made him become more secretive about his masturbation habits and looked to other solutions hence the phone/text lines.

All this and made to go to a sex addict clinic and made to feel dirty for watching a bit of porn, like I say unless I have missed something, I actually feel sorry for him, it's something all men have done at some point that is a fact. You'll never be happy if you want a man to never, ever cross porn it's everywhere and it is natural.

I think I'll leave it there, but it's sad to see you tearing yourself to pieces over something all men have done as reading through this has all started due to your reaction over a bit of porn.

i only have discovered these things about once or twice a year since we have been married. i posted another topic about unsolicited texts becuase he recently received a text message for a chat line which he swore was unsolicited. although nothing had happened at all for the past year, it took just the suspicion that he might have to bring all the misery back of he porn or phone call discoveries.

that rafwife said 'there is more to it your situation in that he is using chatlines/texting people and you are not having a good relationship in general.'

we have a good respectful relationship in that i respect him for being a good husband and father and provider and he respects me for being a wife and mother. was it from the discovery of porn thati drew away from him, or was it that he was dissatisfied with our sex life that he started going down that, i dont know.

i gave him such a hard time about porn watching and thenagain about the sex chats and then again for sexting that it really upset the dynamic of our relationship. i just fear that he might just go onto have an affair. but i cant divorce him for the 'fear' that he will go onto have an affair can i? have i tried everything that ican to make my marriage successful? no. i think, especially the last couple of years, thati gave myself so much credit for staying with him that i let alot of things go for myself.

rafwife, i hear what you are saying. i need wise advice and am actually wondering if it was my suspicions and constant searchnig that made it go to the level it did as he tried to hide it better.

should i reset things? ask him to change everything and give him back his privacy? is that what other people would do who have a mind to have a long marriage?

Goodness where to start? Actually, not all men use porn, contrary to what Rafwife says - and not all men are "visual creatures" who can't help themselves.

Some men, having been exposed to porn in their younger years, work out for themselves that it has a dehumanising effect. They also acknowledge that if they wouldn't be happy for their sons and daughters to be involved in the porn industry, it's a massive double standard to be wanking over someone else's son or daughter. That applies equally to lap-dancing clubs, sex-workers, "lads mags" and the list goes on. They also talk to their teenage DCs about porn in a realistic way, pointing out the less edifying aspects of the porn industry - and the way in which it can distort expectations about sexual interactions.

But the point of this is that you are not happy about it and are trying to bargain with yourself that you should turn a blind eye and learn not to mind as much.

Given what you have said about your communication and the culture your H has grown up in, where infidelity was normalised as long as spouses were financially catered for, this is going to take a long time to resolve. To resolve it to your satisfaction and happiness would appear to involve your H rejecting the behaviour of numerous family members - and to "unlearn" the views that have been instilled from an early age about the role and value of women in society. Only you can decide whether he is up to that level of scrutiny, courage and honesty.

You can of course turn a blind eye, but I suspect it will corrode your spirit and that your H's behaviour will worsen, because he knows the deal you have made to put your head in the sand and hope no-one actually tells you what is going on, because then you'll have to confront it.

And how do you want to raise your DCs? Do you want DSs to learn these values about women? Do you want your DDs to face the same issues in later life, making themselves so economically dependent on a man that they will make the same bargains as you?

Don't ever ignore that inner voice. It is there for a reason - and it can never be bargained away without masive personal cost to you.

If I am totally honest, I thought I was reading a different thread to other people.

I know some women find porn hard to cope with and it can be gut wrenching.

However it does all seemed to have stemmed from him being caught with porn on his history.

I think seeing the way you reacted and then withdrew and invaded the privacy on every aspect of his life has probably caused a lot of damage and made him hide his "tools" by using the phone instead of the net.

The more this is allowed to fester, the more he is harrassed and made to feel dirty for haing a sex drive it could drive him to an affair yes. Plus he has no privacy, that would drive me nuts imagine your OH, checking up on you all day, every day, if that were a man he'd be a control freak on these boards.

A wank over porn does not mean he does not love you or wants to go off with anyone else, it's just him masturbating and using an image as a tool like many women use rabbits.

It does seem this whole thing has stemmed from your issue with porn yes and the guy has had his privacy taken away for something which is natural and been deemed a sex addict.

It's not like he is doing this for hours everyday, maybe once in a while by the sounds of it? It is normal, men do look a porn be it once a week or year, they just do it does not make them bad.

I think you need counselling togther, come to terms with your own insecurities and also accept masturbation etc and understand how things like that work.

I would certainly be giving him back his privacy however as it's not good having every aspect of his life inspected, it's not healthy at all.

Go to relate together and good luck. Do remember though if he is an all round good guy then yes try and work it out, the odd peek at porn is normal and you will never find a man who has not been exposed to it in the past or will be in the future. That's just my observation form an outsider OFC.

Oh and I take issue with the notion that women who dislike porn are insecure and have confidence issues. Actually, anyone who has the confidence to say they don't like something has enormous self-esteem!

Sorry wwifn I think any woman who truely believes their man has not or will never peek at porn, is naive, young, gullible or just sticking their head in the sand.

The only reason they believe otherwise is the men, they know their wives would go ballastic and hide it better, as they know their attitudes towards it. As they know their women have major hang ups over it which I can see you have, it's disgusting as it's someone elses daughter blah, blah.

Well so are you does that mean a man cannot ever look at you sexually, don't be so rediculous.

Men are hardwired to be turned on by images that's biological fact. No femenist crusade will change that.

Really? And which man did you think I was referring to downthread then? My DH feels this way too. Goodness, you've got a pretty low opinion of men and seem to lump them all in the same category. Some men do actually think about the issues and evolve beyond visual media.

Sorry but I do think you are being rather simplistic. Men masturbate which is normal. Men are hardwired for visual stimulus be it, porn or something more subtle.

It's quite clear with your post, porn is an issue and it's evil as it's someones child etc, of course your husband would never admit to having a peek and of course he will agree with you.

As long as that's what you think and it keeps you happy everyone is a winner

I have to object that you should tar 50% of the entire human race with the same brush. It is just not possible, let alone likely, that ALL men in the world in space enjoy porn, although you might be able to draw a sufficiently wide definition of "porn" that covers pretty much everything in the least bit sexual, including women in bikinis maybe?

It's just a ridiculous sweeping statement. All men, everywhere, do, if you believe they don't you've just never find it, if they say they're not they're lying. You've insulted potentially hundreds of thousands of people by calling them liars and another lot by calling them naive/deluded.

I know an awful lot of men (and quite a few women too) enjoy the kind of images that make me go "oo-er". I'm also quite prepared to believe it's a lot more widespread than some of us think. But enough with the "all men" tosh! Unless you know them ALL, and carried out surveillance on them ALL, you will never know.

Now concentrate on making the sensible point you were, that it isn't necessarily harmful and sometimes driving it underground is more of a problem than the porn itself. I may not entirely agree with that (depends a great deal on degree and circumstances) but at least it's capable of rational debate.

Don't be so patronising. You really have no idea. Fine if you agree with it Rafwife but don't presume that every man is like your H, or every woman is like you. And I assure you, I am neither young nor gullible and my H feels exactly as I have said.

Yes quite, Rafwife - but the issue still remains that the OP is having her nose rubbed in it and feels like she's been kicked in the guts...... We all have our boundaries and notions of what's acceptable to us and what isn't. Calling the OP naive and gullible is not going to help her.

Just to add Rafwife you obviously totally missed the point about it being someone's daughter. This has got nothing to do with a sexual relationship between consenting adults. The point my H was making was that if he would be unhappy for our DD or DS to enter the sex industry, it would be a massive double-standard if he then used it himself. Perhaps you could test out this standard at home in a conversation with your H?

Blind men don't masturbate.

Discuss.

(I bet they bloody do, you know.)

Anniegetyourgun: "Blind men don't masturbate.

Discuss.

(I bet they bloody do, you know.)"

David Blunkett??? I rest my case.

OP you are quite reasonable to object to your husbands use of porn. Can he get counselling? IT is addictive (and like all addictions can lead to harder/greater need to satisfy).

It angered, then amused me that anyone can say "All men..." several times and then accuse me of being simplistic!

OP I really hope you get some other views soon. I really don't want you to believe for a minute that you need counselling for your attitudes towards your husband's porn use, sex-chat lines and sexual texting. Bloody hell, how on earth can that be right?

And as ever, ask yourself this. If you were masturbating at the PC and engaging in sex chats with other men, would your H seek counselling to get over his feelings about it?

Or would he say, but it's different for men, we can't help it, we're visual creatures blah, blah?