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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

R4's PM and Newcastle DV case (well, alleged murder)

45 replies

Unlikelyamazonian · 05/07/2010 18:01

Posted this in chat too.
Am I the only one who thinks it is totally bloody shocking beyond belief that R4's PM (presented by eddie 'cocktail' twonk) have not discussed AT ALL the fact that the police were warned this man may try to kill his partner??

sdhocked that there was no discussion of why the police did nothing about this (otherwise it would have been reported - the police would have made sure of that) #that there was no discussion of the statistics for these kind of cases,

that they actually ran a clip from a neighbour who told the reporter that the killer clearly seemed nice, ok and to love his partner / baby?

I mean for fucks fucks sake, what era are we living in?? who the fuck was editing this steaming heap of sloppy shit?

The interview ended up by talking about how hard it is to track recently released prisoners and about government cuts

Jesus christ. The editor should be shot and if anyone female is working on that show presumably they are going home to a nice meal out with their non-violent partner at some poncy islington nosherie.

jurassic

but, sadly, bloody typical

Shit news editing. shit coverage.

OP posts:

marantha · 05/07/2010 18:08

Sorry, OP, tragic as this case is, you can't arrest people on what they MIGHT do. It's what they DO that matters.

marantha · 05/07/2010 18:14

It's more "jurassic" to arrest people because you've got a hunch they MAY do something to be honest. You're obviously upset by this, but you are being unreasonable.

valiumSingleton · 05/07/2010 18:20

yes, UA, I thought it was uncomfortable that they ran that clip of the two dopey neighbours on their sofa saying what a nice guy he was and how he 'always said hello'. Well he must have been a top bloke then. He'd only been out of prison 3 days. How many hellos did they exchange?

Shallishanti · 05/07/2010 18:20

I think I read in the guardian that there is a complaint going on from one police force to another about this.
neighbours ALWAYS say murderers were 'nice, kept themselves to themselves' etc

Also worth considering that this man is still at large and armed, probably listenng to the media (as he's posting on facebook) and therefore media are presumably guided by police in terms of what to say about him that's likely to a, hasten his arrest and b, minimise risk to others.

HerBeatitude · 05/07/2010 18:23

marantha, the guy said he was going to kill his girlfriend.

It is actually an arrestable offence that - it wouldn't be arresting him on a hunch, but on a witnessed threat to commit a serious crime

I said this on another thread - if he'd been saying he was going to kill a police officer, you can bet your bottom dollar he would have been re-arrested as soon as the prison door slammed shut behind him.

HerBeatitude · 05/07/2010 18:24

Channel 4 are going to cover this story tonight and I suspect will do a better job of it

cheerfulvicky · 05/07/2010 18:33

It's just been on the 6 O'clock news that he said he was going to harm her, and the prison warned the police yet the police did nothing. I think the police are referring it to the IPCC now because they know they have fucked up big time

Shallishanti · 05/07/2010 18:40

Northumbria police have referred themselves.

mathanxiety · 05/07/2010 19:01

If he said he was going to kill his dog they would have taken it seriously.

Original poster

Unlikelyamazonian · 05/07/2010 19:02

maranthat you have totally not read my post. I said that it is shocking the way R4 Pm covered the story.

Can you not bloody read fgs?

And it is. And I shall watch newsnight to see
how it is covered.

OP posts:

thatbuzzingnoise · 05/07/2010 19:07

the man was in an abusive relationship with his ex. the police knew that.

he was a steriods using ex-doorman.

I suppose he has a death wish.

marantha · 05/07/2010 19:11

Unlikelyamazonian Sorry, but you seem to be MORE than just shocked by the way R4 covered the story. You ALSO seem angry that the police did not arrest the man who is accused of these crimes BEFORE he did anything.

I would also add that your "reading" skills are not up to much, either. For it is deeply inappropriate of you to say that -and I quote from your OP- "the editor should be shot" over this.

BertieBotts · 05/07/2010 19:12

I heard it on the news today from a local station (not that I am in the area) - they played a clip from a family member saying (I paraphrase) "It was like he had a split personality - he could be lovely, very caring, very thoughtful, but the slightest thing would set him off and then he'd be horrible. Not a nice man at all."

Doesn't this just fit the perfect profile of the abuser though? There aren't many people who are evil through and through. I am willing to bet that 99% of people who commit serious crimes are able to present a side of themselves which is pleasant and likeable, otherwise nobody would ever trust them in the first place! People aren't stupid. But most people strive to see the best in others, and downplay their faults.

It probably doesn't help that on soaps etc whenever you have a domestic violence storyline the abuser is always brooding and nasty most of the time, and the victim is always shown as pathetic for not realising what's going on, and everyone else can see it. In real life it's not like that - most abusers are very charming, and anyone who realises what is going on is quickly shut out of the situation, so often by the time the victim realises, they are surrounded by people who think the abuser is wonderful. Actually, I know it's unrealistic in nearly every way, but Waterloo Road did a very good job of portraying an abusive man in Max Tyler in the first half of series 5.

What I don't understand though is that enough people have been through abusive relationships, there are enough books written about it by now, in nearly all cases the behaviour of these people is TEXTBOOK. So why don't they study it and train the police, social services, etc? Why are people still being taken in by this?

catinthehat2 · 05/07/2010 19:13

would it be wrong of me to go arf at this point?

Yes it would

mathanxiety · 05/07/2010 19:16

SO true, BertieBotts. And inexplicable.

marantha · 05/07/2010 19:24

OK, HerBeatitude, you say it's an arrestable offence and I take your word for it.
But I ask this, what exactly can the police do? Keep someone locked up forever on account of what they MIGHT do?
Please tell me, I don't understand.

celticfairy101 · 05/07/2010 19:42

I'm in total agreement with you unlikelyamazon, it was shocking news coverage full stop. 'we are listening to you'. OKAY. You have killed 'her partner'. Well pardon me but a man has been killed indiscriminately by some psycho who was let out of jail early despite his rantings that he was going to get her. Little did they know he would kill a man and attempt the murder of another. They just thought that a woman might be killed.

HerBeatitude · 05/07/2010 19:58

matha - they could have arrested him and charged him for conspiracy to commit a crime, threatening behaviour, blah di blah - whatever the offence is that you commit when you say that you are going to kill someone and it is obvious that you mean it.

After that of course, they can do nothing - because what this case very clearly shows, is that prison is not doing a very good job of rehabilitating criminals. That this bloke can go in for an assault and come out still thinking he's entitled to commit murder, says everything we need to know about how our prisons re-habilitate certain types of criminals.

He was serving time for an assault, but it doesn't say whether that was for assaulting his ex girlfriend, or another person.

HerBeatitude · 05/07/2010 20:00

Celtic - my thoughts exactly.

The fact that he was going to kill his ex, didn't matter. But that he should kill a policeman - well now, they actually give a shit about that.

celticfairy101 · 05/07/2010 20:11

Hi OP,

He didn't kill the policeman, he remains injured, but he wanted to. Simply because she had said to psycho boyfriend that she was with a policeman in order to keep him away. You know it could be interpreted that it may well be her fault for saying this!!!?? How does anyone with an ounce of sense square that circle?

He did however murder her partner.

celticfairy101 · 05/07/2010 20:13

Sorry not OP but HerBeatitude.

marantha · 05/07/2010 20:13

Thanks for answering, HerBeatitude.

I'm not heartless, but I think the tendency to blame the police in these situations is not good because:
It is unrealistic that EVERY crime can be prevented by the police. I don't want to live in a country where people can be locked up on account of what they MIGHT do or what they say they might do- let's face it, only a childlike mind can't recognise that what people say they're going to do and actually do are not always the same. In my experience, they're rarely the same. Most people for at least some of the time bulls**t.
It detracts from the real "bad guys" i.e. the perpetrator of the crime/s!
But, hey, that's my point of view and others are free to disagree.

HerBeatitude · 05/07/2010 20:15

I bet she told him she was seeing a policeman because she thought it would keep him away from her. I have a friend who is a policewoman and she says it really sorts out dodgy types - she is extremely beautiful and glamorous, but some men just run a mile when they find out her occupation.

GypsyMoth · 05/07/2010 20:21

police powers are limited.....surely you all know that?? many a threat is made...what should they have done? locked him up indefinitely? for what....a threat

i have been through this personally....my ex threatened both me and my dc.....NOTHING could be done as we had recently split due to dv. he has been in and out of prison since for violence and gun crime....he has severe mental health issues. he has had 3 girlfriends since me he has beaten blck and blue,culminating in ss removing the last girls kids from her...NOTHING can be done

however,on this man in newcastles release...should probation have been involved?

HerBeatitude · 05/07/2010 20:21

But Marantha, a controlling abuser who says he is going to kill his gf or ex, often does mean it. As someone else on this thread said, if the police, SS etc., knew the basics of how abusers behave, they would know that this is a threat to be taken seriously.

A threat made by an abuser who is so dangerous that he has had to serve time in prison, isn't the same as a threat made by any old random. And the police should know that. It's not their fault, individually, that they don't, but it is most certainly the fault of their culture and training. They should be aware of these issues because it is a matter of public safety - 2 women a week are murdered by their current or ex partners in the UK and that is in part because the authorities who ought to be protecting them, simply are not listening to the experts who know how these abusers behave and integrating that knowledge into their training and work practices.

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