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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Playfighting going too far

120 replies

secunda · 27/05/2010 12:25

DP has always said that he would stop if he was doing something sex-wise that I didn't like, and this is generally true. However, he doesn't seem to realise that it's just as important with playfighting. A few times now, he has got carried away playfighting (wrestling, tickling, biting) and not stopped despite me yelling at him. He only stops when I burst into tears out of frustration. But then he feels so bad afterwards that it really casts a shadow, sometimes for days, and I end up being the one feeling guilty. Recently he criticised me for 'having a go' about it, I think he felt I was overreacting, even though I tried to explain patiently that he probably didn't realise his own strength, etc. It feels like I am being 'punished' for saying something.

It really bothered me for a couple of weeks afterwards, and brought back the anxiety I suffer from sometimes. I also wondered a bit whether it was my fault, as I have let him know that I quite like him to take control in sex, although I NEVER say no when I don't mean it, so I don't see the need for a safe word or anything.

He always says it won't happen again, but sooner or later it does. He is very lovely in all other ways.

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 28/05/2010 17:43

is there such a thing as neapolitan sex?

I do that

it's not vanilla...but it's still kinda within what I could talk to my mum about (just...), IYSWIM

amummyinwaiting · 28/05/2010 17:54

I was abused when I was younger by my brother who hugged me for a little bit to long, smacked my bottom,accidently rubbed up agaonst me....all sounds like Amylyons husband.My mom and dad (I'm pretty certain) stood by and ignored it even when I told them the actual abuse he did (not just the bits I've written up at the top)they said it was just what poeple do. Please Amylyons I beg you not to do this to your daughter too. You know its wrong else you wouldnt say about it.
Secunda- dont back down now!You have brought this up for a reason. you are being bullied. Me and my dh have a really silly sense of humour and playfight occasionally but if I was ever to say no/stop/or horrifically get to the point of crying my husband would stop AT THAT SECOND not carry on for a little bit longer (probably just to assert his authority a little bit longer imo)So he did something during sex that you didnt like,you told him but then straight after he forgot and did it again?and he ejaculated when you asked him not to but then belittled you by saying you wouldnt get pregnant?But you had asked him not too! do not back down. is he really the person for you?

Miggsie · 28/05/2010 18:00

HE respects your wishes, unless he doesn't agree with them, then your wishes are zero and only he matters.

Selfish, selfish, controlling, ever so subtle abuser.

And amy...well, he's a not very subtle abuser. Your poor daughter. I have a friend who was abused by her father and brother and her mother did nothing. She is totally unable to have any form of relationship and has no self confidence either. Her life was ruined by it.

ihearthuckabees · 28/05/2010 18:16

Agree with Oblomov.

Tortoise, I think you are out of order: that's a big accusation to make, despite the other things that are going on. (Disclaimer: maybe I missed something, as I didn't see the post that amylyons removed)

Also, I think a lot of people are being very hard-line towards amylyons, who is obviously trying very hard to figure out what exactly is going on and how to deal with it. Amy sounds very confused and probably vulnerable and so many people on here are throwing judgements at her for not 'sorting out' her husband/her marriage/her daughter. A bit of empathy and sympathy and support wouldn't go amiss. Is there a better way we can help her? Instead of ranting that she must 'get out now!'

Secunda, I'm not so sure about your situation. It is possible that your DP is unaware of how he's crossing the line, and, out of insecurity, overcompensates when he realises he's made a mistake. Maybe you can help by being clearer with him about what's acceptible. I wouldn't like to comment on the sexual side, as I'm definitely a 'vanilla' kind of gal, but from what you've said, he doesn't sound like a cut and dried abuser to me. I think the best thing you can do is listen to your own gut feelings about things, try not to go along with things you don't like and feel uncomfortable with, as this will only open doors to someone who is manipulative or abusive (whoever that may be - work colleagues, boyfriends, friends etc).

Bucharest · 28/05/2010 18:19

Have you read the other thread?

Bucharest · 28/05/2010 18:20

(the "rough housing" one)

ihearthuckabees · 28/05/2010 18:22

bucharest, are you talking to me?

Yes, I've read the roughhousing one. I am not disagreeing that abuse is going on. I feel uncomfortable with the way people are talking to amylyons. She is obviously getting scared off, and needs support. If she is finding it difficult to accept what is happening, then having a ton of people come down on her about how she has to DEAL WITH IT NOW! is not going to help.

AnyFucker · 28/05/2010 18:41

IHH...are you seriously suggesting that she should allow her husband to continue this behaviour towards her daughter for even one more day ?????

the rough-housing thread was a couple of weeks ago was it...it appears that amy is still looking for validation to continue ignoring and rationalising the situation her daughter is in

she seems unable to protect her adequately...this is a child protection issue that SS might be very interested in and I am surprised actually that someone has not jumped in here and pushed that issue further

there is no excuse for being a bystander, none at all...she makes herself as bad as him

if she didn't try to justify and downplay and simply asked for help...she would get it

but people are reacting negatively to the fact it appears she is unwilling or unable to change the situation at all...by speaking only to her daughter she reinforces the fact that she is the one to blame

expecting a teenage girl to modify the actions of a grown man, if only she didn't "let" him into her bed ? that is sick

Oblomov · 28/05/2010 18:47

i always agreed that abuse was a possibility. that wasn't what i was querying.dignified, that wasn't what i was saying.

ItsGraceAgain · 28/05/2010 18:50

Against the very unlikely chance that Amy's still reading Secunda's thread, I'll repeat: Amy is already a better woman than my mother because she has acknowledged a problem, albeit only partially.

I don't know what makes people think a 'conditioned' individual will suddenly gain clarity & courage after being reviled on a forum thread. But that doesn't work in real life and, frustrating as it may be, it won't work here either.

You, too, Secunda! Please keep reading

ihearthuckabees · 28/05/2010 18:56

AF - no, I'm not suggesting she should allow this. But, as you say, she seems unable to change the situation (I don't think unwilling really comes into it, because if she's unable to , that's a moot point). We need to help her work out how she can become able to change the situation. What I am taking issue with is whether the way people are talking to her is actually going to do this, or whether it's going to make things worse (i.e. she disappears and goes into more denial).

It is very, very easy to say 'there is no excuse for being a bystander'. It is very, very difficult to not be a bystander in any situation where you are vulnerable, confused and in danger. This does not excuse being a bystander, but gives some insight into the fact that amylyons hasn't yet come to terms with what she needs to do.

ihearthuckabees · 28/05/2010 18:58

grace - I think you are saying what I was trying to say

AnyFucker · 28/05/2010 19:01

I used the word "frozen" upthread

I can understand that

But having seen the reaction she has unanimously got, on more than one occasion, some weeks apart...there is no more room for excuses

Harsh...but, IMO, true

Every further day she allows her daughter to be compromised by the fact she appears to value her relationship over the wellbeing of her child is something she may have to live with for the rest of her life....

ihearthuckabees · 28/05/2010 19:07

I agree AF. Let's hope she can find the courage to face this and that she has people around her who will support her.

(I understand this is very emotive for those people who have experienced abuse themselves. I am fortunate not to have experienced this, and hope I don't come across as unsympathetic. I felt compelled to comment on the thread because I was worried that the OP seemed to have disappeared).

AnyFucker · 28/05/2010 19:14

I hope for that too

And I do understand, IHH, what you are saying about harsh responses just frightening someone away into further denial

Maybe handholding and "there-there"-type responses would keep her here...I dunno

But we are not counsellors, and no-one has the time to take someone slowly through, step-by-step what has to happen to put this right

She should seek RL help, but she won't, I feel...not while she is still trying to excuse the inexcusable

ihearthuckabees · 28/05/2010 19:27

Hope she seeks RL help.

I will be thinking of her and her daughters.

clam · 28/05/2010 19:49

Something that amylyons said way back..... "we don't have sex anymore."

So I'm wondering, where's he getting sex from instead then?

Original poster

secunda · 29/05/2010 18:29

Well, had a talk with DP about it last night and he agreed that no meant no and said he'd never meant to hurt me. He was a bit upset that he'd upset me, but didn't overreact and is fine today. Obviously we haven't had sex that much since the conversation but it seems fine (it always usually was anyway), and last night he occasionally asked 'Is this OK?' and moved immediately if I say too heavy, too much etc. so I can see he is taking more care.

I completely appreciate everyone's advice, and I will be on the lookout for any behaviour like that in the future. I think quite a lot of it was to do with me being determined to push my own boundaries for whatever reason, and now I see there's no point doing that because it only makes me upset.

thanks everyone, and I also hope amy gets some rl help

OP posts:

ItsGraceAgain · 29/05/2010 18:45

Thanks for the update, sweetheart I'm very glad you sorted something out about your own boundaries.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 01/06/2010 02:41

Thanks for updating, Secunda (and sorry I'm so late back to this - trying to enforce a no Mumsnet weekend rule).

I've duly noted those of you who think I'm out of order. I'm sorry if Amy feels she can't post here anymore, although I don't think I've attacked her at all and nor was it my intention to do so. I do think that expecting a 13 year old to be responsible for her own boundaries to this extent is unreasonable. And I stand by my feeling that if this man is happy to openly abuse her daughter to the extent described here, then there's almost certainly some further abuse going on which is happening in secret.

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